170k+ Attended the Long Beach Grand Prix for the weekend

[Turn13]

I don't think there is much "cross-over" between the folks who attend the Long Beach Weekend Party and the Fontana races (either NASCAR or Indy Car). Two completely different groups of folk.

Raise your hand if you've ever been to both

Or Belle Isle (or Cleveland) and MIS. Or St Pete and Homestead. Or any street / road / oval combo.

[Todd Gack]

Raise your hand if you've ever been to both

Or Belle Isle (or Cleveland) and MIS. Or St Pete and Homestead. Or any street / road / oval combo.

I didn't make the comment about there being so many Indy Car fans in southern California (just because Long Beach's 3 day attendance is such-and-such a number).

Again, if there were so many rabid Indy Car fans in So. Cal, then Fontana's IC crowds wouldn't have been as pathetic as they have almost always been (especially since so many that attended the Fontana CART races were Marlboro freebies). Fontana isn't that far a drive from the LBC. I know if there was another Indy Car race at a facility an hour away from IMS, that it could probably draw more then 15,000 people. At least, I'd hope that to be the case.

If 170,000 folks actually showed up to watch Indy Cars at Long Beach in April, why wouldn't you make the trek up to Fontana and watch them in October? If you are a big fan of the sport and the drivers, you'd think you would want to watch more then 1 race a year live. Especially if it was in your backyard. That's what race fans usually do. I am guessing that a lot of fans who attend the Brickyard 400, also attend one (if not both) of the Michigan Cup races. I'd think many of the fans who attend the Vegas Cup race also attend one of (if not both) of the Phoenix Cup races. In the olden days, I'd guess many of the fans who attended the Mid-Ohio CART race also attended the Cleveland race.

[Turn13]

I'm sure they are different crowds, with a lot more casual fans at the street races. I think that's sort of the idea. But I was just curious how different. I would think a lot of the IndyCar fans would do both.

[Todd Gack]

I would think a lot of the IndyCar fans would do both.

I think Indy Car fans would. Especially when races were so close.

Which puzzles me why Long Beach can draw so many Indy Car fans and why Fontana can't get many of those "fans" who attend Long Beach.

[Turn13]

Really? Doesn't puzzle me

Convenience, plus more activities. Maybe even more free stuff, too.

[OPMoney]

If any of those folks actually watched another Indy Car race the rest of the year, your point might stand. Judging by how few folks went to watch Indy Cars at Fontana and how puny the TV audience is from the LA market, I'd say I be right. Its a traditional party, where you can go and have a good time and get drunk and do a bunch of other things besides watch the actual race. Its kinda like the infield at Indy used to be. There weren't many race fans there either. But they still came to party every year.

If Long Beach went away tomorrow and was replaced with a natural terrain road course a few miles down the road, what would the attendance be? Would all of those rabid Indy Car fans you think exist, go if it wasn't a part of the LBC festival? Hopefully for our case, they would. I seriously doubt it though.

Long Beach is a nice event. Not close to what is used to be, but still a vibrant event. But is it that important to the overall health of the sport? Not really. Just another event, that doesn't draw on TV and usually exhibits a product that in no way links it with the speed and danger and excitement of the heritage of Indy Car Racing and its signature race.

Very few LBGP attendees watch ICS races after they attend the LBGP.

CART in their last year in existance did an exit interview at the LBGP. They found out the less than 10% of the group they questioned watched a CART race any other time. This was not a surprise.

Fontana used to draw nice crowds in the 90's during the CART years. BUT...you had Ford, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Motorola, Marlboro and other companies BUYING tickets and distributing them.

I remember one race at Fontana, I was in the infield hospitality as the race broadcast started. I could see thru the cracks the end of the grandstands going into turn one. Bob Varsha was the announcer and stated that the grandstands were totally packed with race fans. I let out a big chuckle and pointed to the end of the grandstands where it was totally BARE -- no fans at all. I guess he missed that section.

LBGP is a great event and like many races, the attendence has gone up and down over the years. It is a party and many people are there for the party, not the race or are they die hard race fans.

Most of the race fans have been lost over the years to NASCAR and they are in the midwest and NOT the big cities. The ratings will continue to be weak until the sponsors or the series starts advertising to those fans to win them back. This is not being done. IZOD is a great partner, but they are tied with Macy's and only advertises in major markets. The fans are just not there. Look at the Iowa race. In the middle of no where and the draw a nice crowd.

[oryan_dunn]

1. The one thing I hate doing is "bugging" Swaze. I hate getting his bloomers in a bunch. But guess what Swaze...Indy Car's home is the midwest. I know you living in California may not realize that. You know who else's home is the midwest? American Open Wheel Racing. That's where the vast majority of AOW is based out of and where most of its races are held. You know whose biggest fanbase is for Indy Cars? Come on now, you can do it....its in the midwest. And the three biggest markets for TV ratings? We're on a roll here....Indianapolis, Dayton and Columbus Ohio. Not the LBC, San Francisco and Big Bear.

Yes we might be "closed-minded". Because AOW belongs to us. Always has. Always will. NASCAR belongs to the Southeast. They probably get pretty "closed-minded" about their form of racing too when its attacked and butchered by outsiders.

2. You seen the ratings lately, Swaze? Maybe if we actually adhered to a philosophy and a true "vision", we wouldn't be sucking wind right now in this country. Our "fanbase" is so small and many have vanished and moved on to other forms of racing, as we have transformed the sport into some hybrid F1 knockoff/sports car/early 90's CART series, that in reality appeals to very few folks. Very few folks here in Indiana. Very few folks in Cali either. At this point, we really don't know what the American consumer wants from a racing series. We know what they don't want. And that's what the ICS is giving us.

3. No, it doesn't occur to me. If any of those folks actually watched another Indy Car race the rest of the year, your point might stand. Judging by how few folks went to watch Indy Cars at Fontana and how puny the TV audience is from the LA market, I'd say I be right. Its a traditional party, where you can go and have a good time and get drunk and do a bunch of other things besides watch the actual race. Its kinda like the infield at Indy used to be. There weren't many race fans there either. But they still came to party every year.

If Long Beach went away tomorrow and was replaced with a natural terrain road course a few miles down the road, what would the attendance be? Would all of those rabid Indy Car fans you think exist, go if it wasn't a part of the LBC festival? Hopefully for our case, they would. I seriously doubt it though.

Long Beach is a nice event. Not close to what is used to be, but still a vibrant event. But is it that important to the overall health of the sport? Not really. Just another event, that doesn't draw on TV and usually exhibits a product that in no way links it with the speed and danger and excitement of the heritage of Indy Car Racing and its signature race.

1. Then you'll have to be happy with the numbers IndyCar is currently doing.

2. I'm from Indiana and completely disagree with this statement. What Indycar currently has appeals to me, and I can't wait for the aero kits. I wish certain other tracks would be on the schedule, but other than MIS, none are ovals.

[TimmyZ1]

Why would they do that?

There aren't beer gardens and ferris wheels at Fontana, are there?

I don't think there is much "cross-over" between the folks who attend the Long Beach Weekend Party and the Fontana races (either NASCAR or Indy Car). Two completely different groups of folk.

This silly, why wouldn't you cross promote?? And try and drive up a little business for Fontana?? What would the cost be in a 1 small tent space be for the 3 day weekend? I get it Gack you don't like SC's and that's fine. Its your prerogative. With that being said. per Google Maps LB to Fontana is 62 miles. 5 months down the road your series is coming back for its season ender. Do a few ticket specials if they buy that day.

[Supernova]

LBGP is a great event and like many races, the attendence has gone up and down over the years. It is a party and many people are there for the party, not the race or are they die hard race fans.

Have to agree with you on this one. Of the 90k or 100k that attended the LBGP that Sunday, half of them were in the stands, and the rest were walking around the circuit not watching the race. All I know, there was a lot of freakin people everywhere you'd walk. It was a party for many of the people. I say closer to 100k because I attended a CART race back in '98 at then the California Speedway and all the seats for that race were filled to the brim and seating capacity was around 95,000.

[Grover]

If Robin Miller said the attendance at Long Beach was about 65,000 on race day (and for the record, he did), does this make the CCWS refugees turn on him as a hater or is he still cool?

[doitagain]

It just doesn't matter any more, G.