crispy's entry list complaint

[Todd Gack]

What driver is REALLY fully funded to run?

There are drivers out there, who have had funding to run the past few years, who likely would have found it again if an actual ride existed for them. We all know the names.

Kinda hard to sell a prospective sponsor that you want to run the Indy 500 when there are literally no spots available (and no engines available for you, even if you have the money). What's the point of even trying if you know back in March that the spots are already filled? You don't even see unemployed drivers going to pre-Indy races anymore. No point in it.

[TimmyZ1]

Then you clearly don't understand what the word "tantrum" means.

I dunno you tell me most of what is written below characterizes this thread

A tantrum (or temper tantrum or tirade or hissy fit) is an emotional outburst, usually associated with children or those in emotional distress, that is typically characterized by stubbornness, crying, screaming, yelling, shrieking, defiance, angry ranting, a resistance to attempts at pacification and, in some cases, violence. Physical control may be lost, the person may be unable to remain still, and even if the "goal" of the person is met he or she may not be calmed.[1][2][3][4][5] A tantrum may be expressed in a tirade: a protracted, angry, or violent speech

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantrum

[Ren Butler]

Yep, I double-checked that very same link before I made my post. I don't see anything resembling a tantrum. Perhaps "stubbornness" applies here, but stubbornness on its own doesn't come close to being a tantrum.

Please, let's not use such exaggerated and provocative words in our disagreements on this message board.

[R22]

Its most likely 1 year maybe 2. We had great bump days the last couple of years because we had a ton of equipment laying around. See Cavin's explanation in his Q & A today




And this is a tantrum thread. Granted this forum is for these type of threads but that what this thread is.

Definition of TANTRUM

: a fit of bad temper

so you think this thread and my post is a "fit of bad temper" eh? that is an insult to me and i still take offense at the use of the term.

so i will repeat: you want to see me throw a tantrum? do ya? r e a l l y?

[Todd Gack]

1. Not having 33 cars would be a fatal blow to the sport? A little hyperbole there?

2. Also don't believe the sport is gasping for air.

1. No I don't think I am overstating it. I'll just say this...a lot of the .5 or .6 in those TV ratings are Indy 500 fans first. A lot of fans have already been run off, just in the last decade. You ever get to a point that we start 30 cars or 31 cars at the Indianapolis 500 and you will run off a bunch more. Because 33 is not just a number. Its a symbol. And the message this would send to diehard fans or casual fans is that this sport is completely unhealthy and pretty much dead. A PR disaster for a sport that can't afford any more. "They can't even find 33 cars to start the Indy 500 anymore". That would be the sentiment.

2. The last 8 months have not been good for the sport. For every positive step, there have been 4 negative steps backward. There is no momentum and very little energy. What has been the biggest story of the 2012 season? You really have to dig to find it. Penske and Will Power winning races isn't a big story. And the scary thing is that we could be getting ready for a really bumpy month. Small field at Indy could be real tricky. The LOTUS situation is going to get very interesting and potentially ugly. We still have a big test coming up at Texas, which will also be fascinating.

We need a huge month of May in the worst way. Just don't know if we can pull it off.

[Ren Butler]

It would be a symbolic defeat for sure. But not a fatal blow, IMO.

[Chris Paff]

The actual Indianapolis 500 will be fine. Should still see 33 cars taking the green flag. That day will not be compromised.

The rest of the month though, will not be the same. Not when just about anyone who can put 4 laps together gets to race.

Do you really think most of the car owners really care?

Remember Indy is just another race to most of them.. If they really cared about Indianapolis they would not have boycotted the race for years..

[Todd Gack]

It would be a symbolic defeat for sure. But not a fatal blow, IMO.

Ohh, the sport will trundle along regardless. Its gone on for years and it will continue to go on as long as a few owners and the Hulman family decide it should.

But it would be a huge PR hit and symbolically would look horrible.

[R22]

Do you really think most of the car owners really care?

Remember Indy is just another race to most of them.. If they really cared about Indianapolis they would not have boycotted the race for years..

that's the problem Chris, through all the various mis-steps throughout the years; it has become just another race. one with a bit more pomp and glitter, but in the end; it has just become another race. gone are the days of 200,000 people showing up for pole day or 75,000 for bump day.. gone are the days of you taking your mega-millions jackpot and reducing it to nothing by fielding a cobbled together team and taking a shot at making the field of the "greatest spectacle in racing".. gone are the days of veteran driver walking through the garages helmet in hand looking for a bump day ride; then taking that ride out for a few shakedown laps before standing the crowd's hair on end as they bumped their way into the race as the gun went off...

yups, Chris, it has become "just another race"!! and it really sucks that is what the facts are....

DOOMED!!!

edit to add: i bet you never had the opportunity to drop everything and just go out to the track before pole day to watch practice eh? oh yeah, that was always a good time. a boatload of cars running, trying to find speed. you standing there with your trusty stopwatch in one hand and a lap time conversion chart from the "star" in front of you.. writing down the times of the cars and comparing the speeds.. jumping up and down as one of your "favorites" clicks off a very solid lap that gives you a big thrill knowing that will be a top ten starting position.. or almost coming to tears as they spin up into the wall destroying the primary car and hoping they have a backup.. thankful they weren't hurt and can still get in the backup..

yeah, Chris, it's just another race!!! and that sucks BAD!!!

DOOMED

[Ren Butler]

But it would be a huge PR hit and symbolically would look horrible.

Agreed. But just as "tantrum" was needlessly exaggerated, so was the term "fatal."

[TimmyZ1]

Definition of TANTRUM

: a fit of bad temper

so you think this thread and my post is a "fit of bad temper" eh? that is an insult to me and i still take offense at the use of the term.

so i will repeat: you want to see me throw a tantrum? do ya? r e a l l y?

I could care less if you throw a fit/ tantrum or not that's your call. My tantrum comments are my opinions of the entire thread. If you feel like you belong in that group then feel upset if not then don't.

[Joonyah]

Do you really think most of the car owners really care?

Remember Indy is just another race to most of them.. If they really cared about Indianapolis they would not have boycotted the race for years..

Maybe the race shouldn't have been used as a political pawn by the track owner.

[lotuspoweredbyford]

Do you really think most of the car owners really care?

Remember Indy is just another race to most of them.. If they really cared about Indianapolis they would not have boycotted the race for years..

Just like Al Unser Junior. You know, to him, he learned long ago that Indy is just another race.

[R22]

I could care less if you throw a fit/ tantrum or not that's your call. My tantrum comments are my opinions of the entire thread. If you feel like you belong in that group then feel upset if not then don't.

kewl timmy!! i hope to meet with you and show you a real tantrum some day.. sometimes personal experience is better than book learning.. fomf uyypossc opps misplaced my fingers..

edit: oh and.. none in "that group" are even coming close to being equal to the term tantrum..

[Jamski]

The actual Indianapolis 500 will be fine. Should still see 33 cars taking the green flag. That day will not be compromised.

The rest of the month though, will not be the same. Not when just about anyone who can put 4 laps together gets to race.

Ah. You misunderstand. We don't go for the race. We go for Pole Day. There will be drama enough. Perhaps not the same level as last year, but hey, you never know. New cars, new engines, some new drivers. It's never exactly the same.

And do you know, you're wrong...it's always been about "anyone who can put 4 laps together gets to race". That's the bottom line, isn't it? There's been plenty of times, pre-and-post split, where people who were amazing racers have failed to make the show and lesser lights have grabbed the ring. Will that drama be lessened this year in that the field might be short? Only if you see it that way.

Perception is everything.

[Chris Paff]

Maybe the race shouldn't have been used as a political pawn by the track owner.

That track owner was doing what he thought was best for the Indy 500.. I would support a similar move right now..

Once again if the car owners/drivers really cared about the Indy 500 they would have found a way to get back to Indy well before 2000-2003 and 2008.. It was not like they were locked out..

[TimmyZ1]

Do you really think most of the car owners really care?

Remember Indy is just another race to most of them.. If they really cared about Indianapolis they would not have boycotted the race for years..

I think they care and they care very deeply. That's why they keep coming back and that's why the big 2 came back in the early 2000's. I also think we have an generation of drivers and owners created over the last few years who deeply care about this race. Just because they turn right and left and there place of birth isn't one of our 50 states doesn't meant they can't have the love of the 500 that someone born down the street from IMS has.

Btw Chris I disagree with 98% of what you post but I do appreciate the fact you spend your money on B-more and the 500 tickets.

[lotuspoweredbyford]

Once again if the car owners/drivers really cared about the Indy 500 they would have found a way to get back to Indy well before 2000-2003 and 2008.. It was not like they were locked out..

Al Unser Junior could have done that too. But to him, Indy was just another race.

[lotuspoweredbyford]

That track owner was doing what he thought was best for the Indy 500.. I would support a similar move right now.. ..

Yeah because the first silly and unnecessary "split" didn't cause enough damage. Let's just inflict more.

[Chris Paff]

Btw Chris I disagree with 98% of what you post but I do appreciate the fact you spend your money on B-more and the 500 tickets.

Thanks man I care very much about the sport and we may disagree on things but it keep this place interesting.

[MoparsRule]

That track owner was doing what he thought was best for the Indy 500.. I would support a similar move right now..

Once again if the car owners/drivers really cared about the Indy 500 they would have found a way to get back to Indy well before 2000-2003 and 2008.. It was not like they were locked out..

Don't see how you can claim that as anything BUT opinion considering you have no idea what those drivers financial obligations or contracts were at the time with their non-IRL teams.

[Chris Paff]

Don't see how you can claim that as anything BUT opinion considering you have no idea what those drivers financial obligations or contracts were at the time with their non-IRL teams.

Correct that is my opinion.

Don't you think in 1997 if Al Unser Jr, Michael Andretti, Bobby Rahal, Jimmy Vasser, Greg Moore, Gil de Ferran, Alex Zanardi all said they are going to Indianapolis with or without you that their teams would have been at Indianapolis. They never made any demands like that.

[paper]

Do you really think most of the car owners really care?

Remember Indy is just another race to most of them.. If they really cared about Indianapolis they would not have boycotted the race for years..

they couldnt afford two operations, in the beginning all their sponsors were behind not going,, that changed ,, but not before going at all faced a huge reduction in value,,

[ndcrs]

There are drivers out there, who have had funding to run the past few years, who likely would have found it again if an actual ride existed for them. We all know the names.

Kinda hard to sell a prospective sponsor that you want to run the Indy 500 when there are literally no spots available (and no engines available for you, even if you have the money). What's the point of even trying if you know back in March that the spots are already filled? You don't even see unemployed drivers going to pre-Indy races anymore. No point in it.

who? who has funding to step into a ride if a current driver is hurt during practice?

[kevin99]

Just like Al Unser Junior. You know, to him, he learned long ago that Indy is just another race.

See my signature? He got it. Knew it was the biggest mistake he stayed away and came back.

Let's not even go there.

[lotuspoweredbyford]

See my signature? He got it. Knew it was the biggest mistake he stayed away and came back.

Let's not even go there.

Why not ?

In 1992 Al did get it.

In 1996 he sold out and had the audacity to say Indy was just another race.

If we are still holding the "CART" people accountable for their mistaken decisions and actions, why not Al.

He made a mistake. He sold out by throwing out what he said in 1992.

A lot of mistakes were made in that time on both sides, but giving Al a free pass as if he never said that isn't right either.

[Chris Paff]

Why not ?

In 1992 Al did get it.

In 1996 he sold out and had the audacity to say Indy was just another race.

If we are still holding the "CART" people accountable for their decisions and actions, why not Al.

He made a mistake. He sold out by throwing out what he said in 1992.

Agreed and look at him now.. Between missing the show in 1995 and the boycott have really taken a toll on him.. He has said so much in his prerace interview with Rusty Wallace before the 2006 Indy 500..

[MoparsRule]

Correct that is my opinion.

Don't you think in 1997 if Al Unser Jr, Michael Andretti, Bobby Rahal, Jimmy Vasser, Greg Moore, Gil de Ferran, Alex Zanardi all said they are going to Indianapolis with or without you that their teams would have been at Indianapolis. They never made any demands like that.

What was the cost to get out of their existing contracts - some of them long & very long term at the time? What was the cost for them to fund the ride at Indy? What was their plan to earn a living AFTER the Month Of May was over?

It's just not that simple, Paff. not even close.

I get the passion... believe me, I GET the passion. But it's just not that simple.

[Chris Paff]

What was the cost to get out of their existing contracts - some of them long & very long term at the time? What was the cost for them to fund the ride at Indy? What was their plan to earn a living AFTER the Month Of May was over?

It's just not that simple, Paff. not even close.

I get the passion... believe me, I GET the passion. But it's just not that simple.

If they did it as a group the car owners would have had no choice..

Just think what the press would have said if Michael Andretti, Al Unser Jr, and Jimmy Vasser went public with their desires to return to Indy. Do you think the car owners would be in any position to face the negative pr if they deny them that?

[MoparsRule]

If they did it as a group the car owners would have had no choice..

Just think what the press would have said if Michael Andretti, Al Unser Jr, and Jimmy Vasser went public with their desires to return to Indy. Do you think the car owners would be in any position to face the negative pr if they deny them that?

What series were those owners in at the time? What contractual obligations did the owners have at the time & in what series were those obligations tied to?

Had those sponsors wanted to be in the IRL, to race at the Indy 500, those owners would have been in the IRL.