crispy's entry list complaint

[R22]

welp turn13, it is indeed the chicken/egg thingy... however, when i'm at INDY all is right with the world.. and i really have enjoyed all the races at tms.. all of them!! and i've seen some good racing on the other ovals too..

that said, i still don't think the series does the road/streets "right" and i really couldn't care less about seeing the same teams at the top year after year after year.. so if i pay attention to my signature line.. i'm just fine. i guess i could just throw a bag over it all and thrash away..

kinda sucks seeing indycar hobbling around with a walker in its old age...

[Turn13]

Yes, and every time I see an upright, wingless sprinter with the engine in front I think about how much faster and exciting Tom Sneva's rear-engined viper was and what coulda been... but thar ya go, as the feller sez...

Racing "right" is the eye of the beholder. To some people, it means ovals should be raced 25% slower, in what is a tube frame single-sitter for some reason faked up to look sorta like a grocery-gettin' six-seatin' sedan. Go fig

[Kurt Cobain]

Clauson, Newgarden, Hildebrand, Carpenter, Andretti, Rahal, Rice, and Hunter-Reay interest me...

Yet you "claim" you like Formula 1. Must be pretty tough to watch a race and have nobody to cheer for.

[kevin99]

Why not ?

In 1992 Al did get it.

In 1996 he sold out and had the audacity to say Indy was just another race.

If we are still holding the "CART" people accountable for their mistaken decisions and actions, why not Al.

He made a mistake. He sold out by throwing out what he said in 1992.

A lot of mistakes were made in that time on both sides, but giving Al a free pass as if he never said that isn't right either.

Al came back long before others did.

You are right, a lot of things were said in the heat of battle that some regret.

Sadly there are those, that despite the merger and rejoining of forces, just won't forget.

After all, a big time car owner is trying awful hard to get the milk he doesn't need.

[BrakeEarly]

I think our only disagreement is one of degree, and some of that is always going to be subjective.

There is nothing subjective about it. You can take the best team in the NFL from 8 years ago put them in their old equipment and they could no longer compete with the worst NFL team from the current year.

Indycar may be the only sport where you can take a driver that was in the 500 field 20 years ago, put them in a 20 year old car from the museum and have them be a true contender, but the odds on favorite to win the pole and the race.

[Turn13]

There is nothing subjective about it.

There's nothing subjective about equating motorsports to NFL football?

Yeah right

I'm sure there's a look-up table for that conversion published somewhere based on calculations done jointly by Stanford and Cambridge

The 20-year-old analogy sorta skips that physical specs were intentionally dialed down. In order your analogy to truthfully model reality, NFL players would have had to have grown to be 12' tall and weigh 3600 lbs, so that it became necessary to genetically shrink them in order to not knock the stadium walls down when they played

As to the exclusiveness of your analogy, I think you could make a pretty decent case for the NASCAR version of Jeff Gordon from 1994 and a car from 1984 being able to win today - that's 18 years and 28 years, respectively

[Todd Gack]

Yet you "claim" you like Formula 1. Must be pretty tough to watch a race and have nobody to cheer for.

Most enjoy Farmula 1 for what it is...the WORLD'S biggest and most well-known road racing series. The series that hop-skotches all over the globe racing on road courses and a few temporary courses with drivers also from all over the globe. That's what they are.

If F1 was racing most of its races in the United States and Canada (and whose biggest race was the Indianapolis 500), had all of its teams based here, almost all of its employees based here and most of its sponsors based here and had so few American and Canadian drivers, then it would be completely different.

[Chris Paff]

Yet you "claim" you like Formula 1. Must be pretty tough to watch a race and have nobody to cheer for.

Kurt, I dont really cheer for anyone in F1..

I enjoy Nascar, Indycar, and Sportscar racing much more then F1.. But I am a casual follower of F1.

[Turn13]

Chris - what is it that you think is lacking in F1, compared to NASCAR or sportscars?

[lotuspoweredbyford]

Sadly there are those, that despite the merger and rejoining of forces, just won't forget.

Right.

There are those that despite the merger and rejoining just won't forget the "start" of the 1996 US 500.

There are those that despite the merger and rejoining just won't accept ANYTHING related to CART.

As I said, a lot of people said and did stupid things. Somehow, Al Junior gets a free pass, but a lot of people don't.

[lotuspoweredbyford]

Chris - what is it that you think is lacking in F1, compared to NASCAR or sportscars?

I will answer for Chris.

Chris likes flags. He's not really interested in talent as much as he is interested in flags.

So this is what Chris will say is lacking.

[Todd Gack]

I'll say this about F1 and their popularity in the United States...

If there was an American driver in F1 that was on a good team and who could compete near the front, I'd guess F1 races would actually get mentioned on SportsCenter and their TV ratings wouldn't be in the 1.0 range (when they race live on Sunday afternoons at places like Canada and the United States) on FOX.

So I don't think its just Paff or Tim Richmond that likes flags. He's just one that posts here.

[hdolan]

I will answer for Chris.

Chris likes flags. He's not really interested in talent as much as he is interested in flags.

So this is what Chris will say is lacking.

How do you know...I don't much care for F1 either...

[R22]

i like F-1, and today's race was a good example of why... if the iics can find a way to put on races like that.. welp i will like it more too

[numetalbizkit]

Al came back long before others did.

I see this a lot from people who supported the original vision.

'Came back.'

I don't think he left, I think that IMS left him and several others and eventually he began racing at IMS again. But Al didn't come back, IMS left him.

[Turn13]

i like F-1, and today's race was a good example of why... if the iics can find a way to put on races like that.. welp i will like it more too

Should be easy - it's only F1, after all

[lotuspoweredbyford]

How do you know...I don't much care for F1 either...

My friend C Paff likes American drivers and isn't interested in talent that is not American.

Currently in F1, there are, well, zero Americans, as I know you are aware of.

If Joey Hand or any other of the short list of drivers C Paff finds acceptable were in F1, he would likely be more interested.

I can't speak to the things you are or are not interested in.

[Turn13]

So I don't think its just Paff or Tim Richmond that likes flags. He's just one that posts here.

I like flags - especially that one. Doesn't have much to do with racing though

[lotuspoweredbyford]

So I don't think its just Paff or Tim Richmond that likes flags. He's just one that posts here.

I like the fact that Chris has a point of view and expresses it.

I only occasionally agree with him, but it is always worth my time to hear the opinion.

[R22]

Should be easy - it's only F1, after all

and that's exactly the point eh?

(woo vs mini-sprints?)

[Todd Gack]

I like the fact that Chris has a point of view and expresses it.

I only occasionally agree with him, but it is always worth my time to hear the opinion.

Say what you (and not specifically you Lotus, but a general statement) want about Chris, but he is a loyal fan and he does attend races and his opinions haven't been swayed over the years.

Our sport and all racing could use more CP's.

[kevin99]

As I said, a lot of people said and did stupid things. Somehow, Al Junior gets a free pass, but a lot of people don't.

I don't everyone is giving Al a free pass. He was as guilty as some for saying stupid things, like Indy is just another race, or the famous JV quote "who needs milk". Al recanted what he said back then when he returned.

I wish everyone, including those that keep bringing up the famous start of the US 500, would just let it go, it's a part of history.

Indycar has plenty of problems now we can discuss.

[Chris Paff]

Our sport and all racing could use more CP's.

Thanks Todd

[Chris Paff]

Chris - what is it that you think is lacking in F1, compared to NASCAR or sportscars?

Lack of exciting racing.. Most races are pretty dull.. This year they have not been but it's early in the season..

[Indyknut]

Say what you (and not specifically you Lotus, but a general statement) want about Chris, but he is a loyal fan and he does attend races and his opinions haven't been swayed over the years.

Our sport and all racing could use more CP's.

Imagine going into a restaurant each weekend to sit down for a meal and there's a guy there, each week, whining and moaning about the food (not enough American dishes), the servers (not enough American waiters) and the ambience (it was better when the tables were oval shaped).

Wouldn't you wonder why that guy was coming in each week, wolfing down the food yet complaining about it at the same time? I'd wonder why he hadn't found a different place to eat that met his needs better.

[MoparsRule]

Lack of exciting racing.. Most races are pretty dull.. This year they have not been but it's early in the season..

They were far from dull last year as well. Some of the best racing the series has seen in a decade, and there has been some absolutely fantastic racing in F1 this decade, so that says a lot.

What I get from your posts is that in your opinion the "lack of exciting racing" means that there are not gobs of passes on the track throughout the race.

Is that accurate?

[Chris Paff]

What I get from your posts is that in your opinion the "lack of exciting racing" means that there are not gobs of passes on the track throughout the race.

Is that accurate?

No there does not need to be gobs of passing but there needs to be some amount of passing for position. But more important for me there needs to be some drama at the finish with who is going to win. I want to see the race some down to the final lap.

I rank Long Beach above Barber for that very reason this year.

[MoparsRule]

No there does not need to be gobs of passing but there needs to be some amount of passing for position. But more important for me there needs to be some drama at the finish with who is going to win. I want to see the race some down to the final lap.

I rank Long Beach above Barber for that very reason this year.

gotcha.

For me there doesn't necessarily have to be one pass on the track for any position as long as their are good battles.
And those good battles can take shape in many different forms. Be it wheel to wheel, a good stalking, or brilliant pit strategy.

My last concern is the margin of victory, or the number of cars on the lead lap... as long as it is decided by the participants I'm good with it.

This year & last in F1 have been as good as it gets, with an incredible amount of battling going on throughout the races.

And I like difficulty, the more difficult the track the better. When a track is too easy to drive then it loses most all interest from me.

Eldora, Winchester, Salem, Indy, Darlington, Old Phoenix, Richmond, Road America, Spa... anything that challenges the driver.

[houstonracefan]

if a race has to come down to the final lap for it to be exciting, why not have 1 or 2 lap races?

I could not care less if the winner wins by a lap or 2 if he is that much better than everyone else. Domination can be exciting as well

[MoparsRule]

if a race has to come down to the final lap for it to be exciting, why not have 1 or 2 lap races?

I could not care less if the winner wins by a lap or 2 if he is that much better than everyone else. Domination can be exciting as well

Ditto.