Flashback - Why did Al Unser leave Jim Hall?

[Big Mo]

I've been watching the original ABC coverage of the 500 during the 70s on YouTube, one race after another. I was at the races from 1975 on, so the memories are fantastic. Especially considering I haven't seen these telecasts since they originally aired on Sunday nights after I got home (and I was operating on no sleep for 36 hours plus).
I'm trying to remember what it was that caused Al Unser to leave Jim Hall's team. He wins the 500 with the brand new team in '78 with a Lola. Then he dominates Indy in '79 with the new Chaparral before a mechanical failure. Then he's gone after the season. For Longhorn of all teams!
Why did he leave?

Another note: For people who believe Al wasn't a charger and that he waited for races to come to him, just watch '77, '78 and '79. In 77 I accurately predicted he would lead the first lap ahead of Sneva and Foyt. That's exactly what he did and ran away from the field. His battle with hot-foot Danny Ongais in '78 for 75 laps is a classic. Same prediction in '79 from the same outside position. He jumped ahead of Tom Sneva and Rick Mears and ran away from the field.

[Big Mo]

After a thorough amount of searching I finally found the answer Al gave in an interview in 1989 to the Chicago Tribune.
"That was very tough," Unser recalls. "You just don`t leave a team that has an advantage like he (Jim Hall) had with that car. But Jim and I just were not getting along, so I elected to leave him. I made myself a promise many years ago that if I`m not happy with a team I`ll leave. And I`d do it again. I don`t regret it."

[Darth Airbox]

After a thorough amount of searching I finally found the answer Al gave in an interview in 1989 to the Chicago Tribune.
"That was very tough," Unser recalls. "You just don`t leave a team that has an advantage like he (Jim Hall) had with that car. But Jim and I just were not getting along, so I elected to leave him. I made myself a promise many years ago that if I`m not happy with a team I`ll leave. And I`d do it again. I don`t regret it."

Big Al is always a man of principal

[Doc Austin]

I remember Al also once said he did not liike the way Hall treated designer John Bernard.

And then, there's this.

[BADGER]

I never heard Al had a beef with how Bernard was treated, but I recall reading a Road & Track many years ago where Bernard felt he wasn't given the credit he deserved for the 2K. Of course, for those who have read some of 239's posts, some of the credit should have gone to Patrick Head who basically sent Bernard the dimensions of the Williams (FW07) underbody.

[sneva33]

Related to the above. When Al signed on with Penske beginning in '83 it was a multi-year deal. At the end of the '83 season in which Al was the season champ. He showed up in Roger's office and asked if they were "good to go" for next season. Roger somewhat puzzled replied "sure, is there some reason we shouldn't be" (parapharsing there". Al said well if you're not happy with me, then there's no reason to continue but as long as we're good, then OK.

I remember reading this in an interview Al gave after the fact. Man of principal, definitely.

[Glenn]

Big Al was always one of my favorite drivers. He may not have regretted leaving Hall, but I was sorry to see him leave that Chaparral! He would be the only 5 time Indy 500 champion if he had stayed! I had always heard he left for the money.

[Spike]

One small note. The designer of the Chaparral 2K was John Barnard.

[Openracer]

That car was not just a copy of the Lotus 79, but an evolution of it, leading to the basis for the Marlboro McLaren MP4/1 in carbon fiber.

Barnard was ahead of everyone and had he designed the Lotus 80, Mario would have won the F1 title again, as it solved a lot of the issues of the ground effect cars then.

Materials and chassis stiffness with the correct amount of downforce were major problems back then.

I'm surprised the Longhorn (Williams FW07) was legal for Indycar was it appears to be a smaller car (less drag), but obviously met tech.

[goldie19]

Brings back to mind the greatest four time winner debate from a few weeks ago...if the car doesn't break during 79 when Al is dominating, Al has five and Rick has 3 and our debate never happens

[Big Mo]

It strikes me that someone 25 years from now or so will ask, why did Dan Wheldon leave TCGR after the 2008 season?

[CorvetteFan]

Actually it was the longhorn that was the williams copy. The ironic thing was that both Chaparral and longhorn were based in midland texas. You will find that any great/famous designer probally gets more credit than what they actually did.

[BADGER]

Actually it was the longhorn that was the williams copy. The ironic thing was that both Chaparral and longhorn were based in midland texas. You will find that any great/famous designer probally gets more credit than what they actually did.

The first Longhorn had Williams input, the LR02 was virtually identical to the Fw07. However, it does not discount what 239 (insider) said about the 2k. The car was based on the Lotus, but Barnard was friends with Head and Head sent him data in regards to designing the underwing. I think it is in the thread about straight line speeds at Indy.

Thread was actually about when wind tunnels first used.

http://Patrick Head gave the Williams FW 07 underwing profile and the inside scoop on ground effect aerodynamics to John Barnard (old pals) for his chapparal indy car providing this info was not to be used in F1. Barnard soon after went to Mclaren F1 and i don't think the two of them have spoken since. I moved on to March via A.T.S (the 1982 wildcat was a derivative of the A.T.S F1 D5) March purchased drawings from John Barnard of the chapparal and based on these and further research at imperial college was born the generation of March indy cars.

[Teej]

I remember Al also once said he did not liike the way Hall treated designer John Bernard.

And then, there's this.

I still stand by what i said then. Nice pickup Doc!

[Kurt Cobain]

A friend of mine worked with Jim Hall's last effort in CART during the 1995 & 1996 season. He had heard horror stories about Hall, but actually found him to be quite charming (maybe he had mellowed), but found out that his word was the final word and THAT was that!

[Rick Jones]

I remember watching an interview video of Big Al, and I think it was on the big screen at Indy during down time last May. In the interview Al did state that he did have an issue with Jim Hall for not sharing the credit as fully as it should have been with John Barnard. I don't think he left Hall because of this alone, but it was one of several issues that Al had with Hall. In the interview Al was very complimentary toward Jim Hall on several levels.

[Billy Chin]

Big Al is always a man of principal

I think you mean "principle".

[Spike]

Beauty.

[BADGER]

Beauty.

Yep, if that die cast is ever made, that thing will sell out. I always though that car and the 86 march were some of the best looking cars ever.

[marc sproule]

I always felt this was the best looking Indy car ever. That's why I included it in my favorites, taken by others....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/indiana...-46681980@N03/

[Doc Austin]

The early ground effects cars were certainly extremely elegant. I loved the PC9 too, but it looked a little more brutish.

[Glenn]

Beauty.

I've always felt this was one of the most beautiful Indycars ever built! I did see this car come out of turn 4 at Phoenix, flip into the air and hit upside down. I thought Johnny had bought it, but thank goodness he walked away from that terrible crash. Happened right in front of me.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q78vjlpjLdk

Go to the 1:00 mark. You talk about scary. The car got sideways, caught some air, and FLEW!

[Ydawg]

And here it is in action on the high banks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxbcejeD3oc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMNUg...feature=relmfu

Wish the end of the race was on Youtube because there is a great
attempt from Mario to pass Rick coming down to the finish.

[racer47201]

What no love for Foyt's ground effects car. I akways thought it was a clone of the yellow submarine.

[frodo13]

My favorite will always be th '67 Dean Van lines Brabham-Brawner Hawk

[ACCP]

With the early ground effects cars being based on F1 cars, what was the diversion point? F1 banning ground effects, or the first carbon fiber F1 cars?

[Chris R]

What no love for Foyt's ground effects car. I akways thought it was a clone of the yellow submarine.

I have always wondered where that 1981 Coyote came from - I have heard it was actually a mildly reworked 1980 Wildcat designed by Bob Riley - but there does not seem to be much info out there... It was also a beauty but not as effective as the yellow submarine.... of course - the yellow submarine was not all that effective for all that long either - it had one development season, one great season, and one quick decline of a season.....

[Chris R]

With the early ground effects cars being based on F1 cars, what was the diversion point? F1 banning ground effects, or the first carbon fiber F1 cars?

No doubt it was f-1 going to flat bottoms.... Indycar was not that far behind F-1 in adapting Carbon Fibre - although it did take quite a while longer to completely abandon aluminum honeycomb though... IIRC - the general feeling seemed to be that the aluminum was safer in a high speed oval crash - which may have been true at the time and was probably prudent anyway as carbon fiber was still developing......

The Brabham BT-53(?) -the lawn dart car - was nothing like a March 83C and that was only because of banning ground effects.....

Also, when F-1 went to normally aspirated engines it set in motion an escalation in RPMs and the necessary technology to make that happen that further separated F-1 from Indycars....

[Chaparral4]

I have always wondered where that 1981 Coyote came from - I have heard it was actually a mildly reworked 1980 Wildcat designed by Bob Riley - but there does not seem to be much info out there... It was also a beauty but not as effective as the yellow submarine.... of course - the yellow submarine was not all that effective for all that long either - it had one development season, one great season, and one quick decline of a season.....

Still an impressive record for a car that never saw the interior of a wind tunnel. Only three Chaparrals were ever made.

[Chaparral4]

Yep, if that die cast is ever made, that thing will sell out. I always though that car and the 86 march were some of the best looking cars ever.

A couple of years ago I spoke with Johnny at Milwaukee. I asked him specifically if there were any plans for a Chaparral replica with Carousel 1 which was already making fabulous cars from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. He said it had tried to convince the guy at Carousel 1 to produce a Chaparral on the very basis you speak of. The guy wouldn't go for it and Carousel 1 is unfortunately no more. It's really unfortunate considering Carousel 1 made the best replica Indy cars ever.