Who really expected the appeal to work for Chevy?Originally Posted by 1978
Who really expected the appeal to work for Chevy?
"I ran in fear, the fear of failure" - Jerry Rice
"Cornering perfectly is like bringing a woman to climax.” - Jackie Stewart
"Driving fast on the track does not scare me. What scares me is when I drive on the highway I get passed by some idiot who thinks he is Fangio." - Juan Manuel Fangio
Jack Snyder. Honda brought attorney Jim Voyles, GM brought former Mercedes man Hans Peter Kolieir.
From a couch in North Dakota
Thanks.
Jeff Downer
Indianapolis, Indiana
Chevy brought in an Engineer, the other 2 were attorneys. The Engineer didn't have a chance!!!!
Switching from a double to single turbo would require a new design so not going to happen between events. Does anyone know what the twin turbo setup a/r range is? Can 3 cylinders pull a large a/r value on a big oval?
Hey, Jimmy is a racing guy from way back. He took me to my first sprint car race race when I was a kid. Come to think of it, that dates him pretty good. Sorry, Jimmy.
Before anyone gets too hot and bothered, let's see what affect it has in Brazil. Do people think Honda is going to sweep 8 of the top 10 or something?
Indy, Cleveland, Mid-Ohio, Pocono, Michigan, Long Beach, Watkins Glen, Kentucky, IRP - 49
Just my opinion, but Honda will sandbag for Brazil and blow them away at Indy.
I wonder if any team will be welding a fender washer onto the turbo outlet.
Have a very blessed day!
You mean on the wastegate outlet. That was sneaky!I wonder if any team will be welding a fender washer onto the turbo outlet.
EDIT: Or was it on the Pop-off Valve exit??? That would make more sense. My memory is failing me again. It's happened before, but I can't remember when.
Last edited by Glenn; 04-27-2012 at 11:25 AM.
This was absolutely a fair ruling as Honda's upgrade was 100% legal and in the rules. Also it wasnt like John Barnes, Micheal Andretti, JV and Roger all filed complaints on this. It was 100% the b!tch and moan king and prince of Roger Penske & Tim Cindric, who think its fair when they have an advantage but cheating when someone else does. Chevy protested on their behalf.
And IMO, they couldnt have been stupid enough to think they would win this appeal. I think the goal was to delay the upgrade to Indy and buy themselves another race with likely another victory and buy them some time to come up with an answer to the Honda upgrade.
To those against this (Specifically you Vintage), its called competition. What did you expect? Honda to keep doing the same thing and continue to get their a$$ beat? NO!!!! When you are losing, you make changes and try to improve your product. Its called competition. If Honda takes the upperhand with this upgrade, now Chevy needs to find an answer. Its called competition. The b!tchin and moanin on this forum sometimes amazes me. We wanted engine competition and yet we have 1 engine dominating thus far and the other making an upgrade to try and better their rival and people are PO'd about that? Really. Stop it.
My words may not be what you want to hear.....but what you need to hear. TF CHALLENGE: CONVINCE 1 NEW PERSON TO WATCH INDY NEXT SUNDAY
This should get interesting. So what if Honda wins the next three races. Does Chevy now want to go to a different turbo? Hey, they can probably run a .6 A/R with the twin turbo setup and spool up quicker than the single turbo. Heck, Lotus and Chevy decided that the twin turbo setup was better. Looks like it is for the twisties. But Honda decided they wanted the single turbo setup that will not spool up as quickly and now they don't want to live with that decision? So now they can run a .74 A/R for the twisties and I'm betting they will run a much higher A/R at Indy. I guess it depends, will they still be able to go all the way up to 1.45 A/R? If so, then now they have more flexibility than they did when it was 1.04 to 1.45 A/R. And they will have more flexibility than the twin turbo setups. What a freaking quagmire!
If IndyCar is trying to make engine competition equal, why do we need more than one engine? Hey Honda, take your lumps and get better. Ernest
I'm concerned that this will hardly be the end of turbogate, and the fact that it poses little entertainment value to the audience while creating confusion and disruption to the normal course of competition.
Is that a bad thing to want all of your competitors to have a competitive product? Also, even IF thats whats Indycar is doing, obviously they arent getting it with Lotus embarrassing themselves on a weekly basis.
And thats exactly what Honda is doing, getting better. Chevy has beatin their butts so far, so they are going to a better turbo. Again, its competition.
It was precisely for this reason that they wanted to make the change... and it's within the rules because it is NOT a Honda-made component, it's a sanctioning-body-supplied component. The engine is still the same.
INDYCAR... Home of the BEST RACING on the planet!
Lotus has the same turbo package as Chevy.
My guardian angel, she wears a hard hat.
The correct decision was made by INDYCAR in my view. I see it as a primarily a Borg Warner issue, not necessarily a Chevy v Honda thing although obviously it effects Honda directly. Hopefully the spin off benefit will be that it improves competition. Hey, I'm all for that!
porscheman
@porscheman121 on Twitter #+200HP!
237.498/241.428/242.333 Speeds from the olden days!
As someone stated before, with the lower turbine a/r, there's technically going to be more exhaust restriction than the 1.0+ a/r they had before. I'm thinking Honda is trading a quicker spool for slightly less efficiency on RC/SC. Now if they are allowed to switch back to the larger a/r for Indy that's where things get a little goofy in my eyes. Hopefully by going below the minimum established by the rule book, the new allowable range is adjusted accordingly.
FIGHT. WIN. PREVAIL!!
IndyCar fan since birth
-FanFest Indy 500 simulation winner in 1995 (or '94?) :D
...to add, if Honda actually loses efficiency on RC/SC, they must be really in trouble in the overall efficiency category especially compared to WP's mileage a few weeks ago.
you know this for fact or do you think this only because robin miller only got a quote from penske?
i would think that it's not really in the rules and that's why a protest/appeal was allowed for the 3 party panel to make an interpretation. if it was clearly in the rules, no need for protest. not everything can be in the rules.
A trick of the past that will never work again fortunately and unfortunately lol. If tried today that engine would be in a constant state of "overboost" per the ECU controls and constantly be in a reduced power mode. Dario had fun with that one in Long Beach.........You mean on the wastegate outlet. That was sneaky!
No, efficiency of the turbo not the engine as a whole due to more back pressure on the turbo. Mileage will likely increase due to drivers dragging less throttle through the corners to try and reduce turbo lag.
Maybe they don't have enough money for a long distance phone call?
This is not "new " turbo. It is one of the 3 approved, but Roger........er..........Chevrolet found an opening in the meeting minutes to try to weasel.......er..make a change illegal.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they go" Mark Twain
Now knowing the rules....that the turbos have a "range" of A/R ratios they must fall under.....Honda will go to the .74 A/R for the roadcourses and to the Larger A/Rfor the Ovals. But guess what, so will Chevy and Lotus..they will go to a larger A/R for the ovals too.
...and if you want a little peace, sometimes you gotta fight. You gotta walk throught the darkness before you stand in the light. Sammy Hagar.
this
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...turbo-protest/Chevrolet countered by filing an official protest, which was heard by a 3-man panel of judges. GM chose Hans Peter Kolieir, Honda picked attorney Jim Voyles and longtime Indianapolis Motor Speedway counsel and board member Jack Snyder was selected by INDYCAR after Honda and GM could not mutually agree on the third choice.
new sig pending
Eliminating the engine leases and allowing the teams to do their own thing would solve this problem.
Aren't these engine leases great?
The transformation is complete. The Indy 500 is the only IndyCar race that matters.
Any downside to that at all?
Looks like they're locked in for a while, its part of the series. If you don't like it, there are already threads in the Series Direction forum to discuss it. No sense bringing that discussion into every thread in this particular forum.
Thanks.
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
How do you know Lotus can even afford to pay Judd any R&D $$$ to upgrade the engine? I think the Lotus motor has bigger issues than the turbo charger spec
I'm not sure your analogy makes any sense... what middle/upper class person would actually be eating at a "government run" soup kitchen?
Even though Lotus seems to be the hungry homeless person of ICS engines, all three manufacturers deserve a chance to improve their engines. Do you expect Honda to keep losing to Chevy all year? IMO, if Honda gets this "fix" to their ICS engine then Chevy & Lotus should have one update each to improve their motors.
Do you NEED a car this fast...? NO, but do you WANT a car this fast?? YES!!! -Tom Hnatiw
Race CARS Not DOGS!!! Adopt or foster a retired greyhound -Me
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