If this event falls through, I'm sticking my head in the oven. For the first time since 2003, I didn't go to any IndyCar events last year because I changed jobs, had to move, reduced discretionary spending for a couple other big items that were necessities. Now I'm back on track, there's still no Glen on the schedule, and I might not get to go to Baltimore as well?
It sucks being a fan in the northeast.
Why is there no Watkins Glen anyways? IndyCar should be on WG like syrup on hotcakes.Originally Posted by Zewspeed
Sorry, I meant RIR has a chance for 2013. It is too late for 2012. BGP is getting a little late for my planning, so I also meant that I personally will be at VIR, as much as I wish IndyCar would go there with me, it ain't happening this year, next year or any year after that. Hope I'm wrong.
Last edited by Unzerdog; 05-01-2012 at 06:02 PM.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat" -Teddy Roosevelt
3 day attendance at $100 each....37500 x $100.....$3,750,000 in ticket sales."Organizers sold 110,000 tickets to the three-day event, which one study concluded generated $47 million in economic impact for the city."
Yes, quite the boondoggle for the city.The taxpayers are fine and nobody is "bilking" them out of anything. At the very least they got new street paving completed and a lot of positive exposure for the city, oh and a 47 million dollar boost to the local economy. The contractors and vendors however did get bilked and of course would like to be paid up front for any services this year.
This race has great potential, and whether you are a street race fan or not, this race could be a great staple of the Indycar schedule for years to come if it is given some time to succeed.
If 37,000 people came, and each spent a grand, you'd have $37 million. There is NO FREAKING WAY they hit this dollar amount. They MIGHT have hit 25 million in "economic impact". This fuzzy math is the exact crap that has the country in the hole we are in
47 million is a complete joke of a number
"I think there's only so many people that can take care of themselves, and can take care of other people. And the rest of the people … they're useful in terms of compost for the whole planet, you know." - Bill Murray
I agree, I really want to go again this year.
"I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living, or get busy dying."
Ah yes, another internet expert. I am glad you have access to a calculator and 2 minutes of spare time to come up with your "comprehensive" economic impact study of the Baltimore Grand Prix. I have included the link to the actual study that was completed by the people who actually do this for a living and not as a hobby on internet forums. Please pay close attention to the direct impact numbers and indirect numbers, this may explain the "joke of a number" 47 million for you. And yes, you may well disagree with their conclusion, but I am going to guess their "fuzzy math" calculation was a little more thorough than yours.
http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...mic-report.pdf
I'd really like to go this year. Put perhaps they should take this year off and try next year. At this point when they do it they better do it right.
Indy, Cleveland, Mid-Ohio, Pocono, Michigan, Long Beach, Watkins Glen, Kentucky, IRP - 49
Without a title sponsor and a promoter this race is going to be a year to year struggle. It would be great if Izod would step up and pay for the title role. Winston used to sponsor 5-10 races in the Winston Cup series, I think Izod could afford to put their name on one premiere event.
Ha, did you even read what you just posted, the survey is bull. They counted every ticket sold as a different person. By all accounts, the race day totals given in articles after the event said Sun admission was 75,000 officially. Miller's articles stated he thought that was inflated that 50K for Sunday and a weekend total of 130K if you added all 3 days admission. Even if you go with the report total of 160K, even you have to admit that they're counting people multiple times as they file through the gate.
"For this impact study, Forward Analytics will measure the spending of spectators residing
outside of the Baltimore Metropolitan Area, as represented by 74,250 people. As
described in the methodology, the study measures their direct and indirect impact on
the City of Baltimore." - From the report
If there were only 75K there on Sunday to begin with I guess only 750 people attended the race from the Baltimore area. I guess promotion around the city was bad. Sorry the survey is bunk, paid for by politicians and other BS artists that need these fluffed up numbers to make their BS spending make sense. Only in the world of a politician can spending a few million net 47 million. Even Bernie Madoff can't get you a return like that.
Well yeah. What, did people attend one day then pass their ticket to some one else? Cause if they did then more indivudual people would have shown up than tickets sold. Also, the Baltimore METRO area is a huge difference than the Baltimore "area". And if you read the survey, they base the 74,000 ish non residents based on 142,000 tickets sold. I do think the poster with the idea that professionals at this have a very keen idea how this works. I'm sure they wouldn't stay in busines long just throwing out BS. I read the survey. It seems rather comprehensive. There are only two points of contention. Can you believe they sold 142,000 tickets and their survey size could have been a little larger. And to assume something a easily documented as ticket sales is doctored is a pretty big stretch. So the only real complaint to the survey it sample size.
Also, everytime some one throws out the 47 million dollar number only proves they have not read the survey or they have and don't understand it.
Last edited by Supertuner; 05-01-2012 at 08:50 PM.
First of all, take your own advice to read the report yourself and see if maybe this time you can comprehend it correctly. RE-read your statements above and see if you can find the errors in your statements. I guess you missed the part where I said " you may well disagree with their conclusion" My point is, why should I give more credence to a guy with 2 minutes and a calculator on a internet forum then a company of professionals that do this for a living? Secondly, where did Miller say that he thought the Sunday crowd was over estimated by 50k? Are you telling me they reported the Sunday crowd at 75k but there was actually only 25k?? Were you there? I was and I can tell you the place was packed, WAY more than 25k, 75k maybe, but more than 50k for sure.
I truly think most of the people here who wish to see this race fail are the anti-street racing group. IndyCar needs Big street events like this and Long Beach, St. Pete whether you like it or not. I love ovals, I Love natural Terrain road courses and I love a good street course. Indy needs to keep this diversity in the schedule if they want to survive in the long run.
You can argue the numbers all you want, but, I can tell you I personally brought three new fans to this race and ALL of them are very much looking forward to going back this year. And 2 of the three are now regularly watching the races on TV every weekend. That is what will grow the sport.
Bottom line, from a purely racing event standpoint this race was a HUGE success for Indycar. Were things royally screwed up by the promoters? You bet they were, and that is the unfortunate thing about this whole mess, lets give another shot to get things right on the business and promotion side this time.
I swear, a lot of people on this forum WANT Indycar to fail.
i read that he owned 50 or 56% of the company and those two investors owned the rest. i also read they want him out so they can have it all. maybe he knows more than we know about their biz deal. yet another time to just sit back and assume that tf is not the magic 8 ball of racing.
if there is a dump on baltimore and add of another race, no question, they should try to rework a deal at nh. iics will loose much more $$ on loosing the izod minimum race number, so give nh a fire sale sanction fee provided they make every seat $10. fill that place up and create some fans and something good out of something that appears bad for now.
Your post is, in a word, wrong. First, I was at Baltimore last year, with 8 others, None of which were from the Baltimore area. My brother and I (from Indy), a brother and nephew (from st louis), a brother in law and nephew from Atlanta, and 3 friends from Leesburg Virginia. I also attended MidOhio last year, and Indy. This year I went to Barber, I'll be gong to Baltimore and Milwaukee and Indy.
I didn't spend two simple minutes with a calculator, I've been attending races since 75 or so.
First....Friday was a FREE day at Baltimore, so I guess they are claiming 75000 tickets sold for both Saturday and Sunday....all I knows there might have been 55,000 there on Sunday, not as many Saturday, no where near as many Friday. But again, they are 3 day tickets. If ticket revenue was less than 5 million, I see no way that they got the digits they claim
If they did, why did the group go yet of business over a couple million owed....why aren't better business owners beating down the door to run the show? Few of these street courses last long term without the city being willing to play ball. Long Beach and St Pete are exceptions, not rules.
I don't want Baltimore to fail in any way, had a blast there last year. I also know that maybe 1 person in my 9 dropped the coin that his study seems to think we all dropped! I think it would be best for groups to have real numbers to base decisions on rather that these phantom numbers that seem to paint IndyCar as a cash cow
Last edited by goldie19; 05-02-2012 at 08:27 AM.
For the same reason they leave all tracks- WGI lost way too much money. WGI is a beautiful track that is unfortunately too friggin far from just about anywhere to Day-trip, and there are esentially zero motel rooms for any significan't number of fans to attend that don't have a camper or want to sleep pn the ground. That said, it was always the July 4th weekend date that killed any possibility of me ever attending the race.
I seriously doubt everyone in attendance bought 3 day tickets. My ticks were $130 IIRC. There were a ton of walk ups for 1 day tickets, a whole mess of Saturday only folks, and Friday was what $20?.
I agree the $47 mil is a joke, but the inner harbor area in Baltimore is generally a ghost town on labor day weekend, and it certainly wasn't last year.
My problem with your first post was that you declared the economic impact report that was prepared by a professional company who makes this their business "fuzzy math" But you put forth your "calculations" as being the more likely accurate numbers based on the fact that you were there, looked around and guessed how many people may have attended each day and then estimated what they spent based on the group of people who attended the race with you.
And on top of that you have now managed to revise your own numbers overnight from 37,500 people attending all three days to "might have been 55,000 there on Sunday, not as many Saturday, no where near as many Friday" Now that math is starting to look fuzzy to me.
You go on to say: "I didn't spend two simple minutes with a calculator, I've been attending races since 75 or so." Ok then please explain exactly how you came to your estimated economic impact number. Did someone give you the ticket sale and gate count numbers? Did you consult with crowd estimate experts? Did they provide you with the arial photo's they use to help come up with crowd estimates? Did you consult with area Restaurants, hotels, gas stations, cab services etc..etc.. to see what their numbers were for the weekend? And please explain how attending Indycar races for 30+ years makes you a more reliable source for economic impact data than a firm with expertise in this field conducting a comprehensive study?
Again, another internet expert who claims to know more than the professionals do.
B.T.W I was not thinking of you when I was speaking of some "fans" who would like to see Indycar fail. But hey, May is here and the greatest race in the world is coming, lets all just try to be fans again and forget about all of this other crap, it is just a distraction that takes away from the enjoyment of this sport. Cheers!
Well there seems to be a Major League Baseball team down there this year, so I guess more people have been down there.
PS: Can we stop with the replacement race talk. IndyCar is not going to replace the event in 2012.
Wanker!
Agreed! It's like pissing and moaning around Christmas! I don't now the math like consultants do,mi just wish they seemed more legit. If that mney was present, promoters would lineup for it!
That said, It's Indy in the Month of May! It's the most wonderful time of the year!!
I do statistical analysis for a living (or at least I used to until I moved more into management functions...but I do get to dust off the cobwebs every now and then), and after having read the report, their method was sound, sample size seems appropriate, and the margin of error seems about right (granted, I didn't do the math). However, there are two issues that I can see here that I would contend need to be taken into consideration...
1) It's a survey, which are always tough. There's always biases, and although they claim that they were random, it's difficult to ever truly call any sample random...e.g.: how many of you have actually stopped for the survey in a mall.
2) It's heavily reliant on assumptions, which are more than likely given to them by people who do, in fact, have a bias.
This doesn't invalidate it, but it would explain why some people take issue with the results.
That was one of the best parts of the later years of Indy @ WGI, having it on Independence Day weekend meant I already had a day off in the bank when I headed up.
I love the Finger Lakes region, and even though as you said it's quite a hike for most people (4+ hrs from central Jersey), it's nice to escape the trappings of the metro area from time to time. Camped in the area at grounds away from the track when I was a broke college student, then once I started making money I booked a room at one of the many B&Bs in the area.
I looked forward to that trip so much...I'm getting depressed as I type this.
^^^
This!
porscheman
@porscheman121 on Twitter #+200HP!
237.498/241.428/242.333 Speeds from the olden days!
My Dad lives a 40 minute drive away just across the PA border. No brainer for me. Bring it back!
porscheman
No Watkins Glen because there weren't enough people attending.
The 2 guys Dillon has to work with. One was an Enron Vice President and the other worked for Goldman Sachs. Someone made off with a pile of cash last year and it drew these 2 gutter rats out.
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