The Turbogate Saga Continues...........

[Doyouloveit?]

Chevy has appealed the appeal ruling in Honda's favor...per Jenna Fryer tweet.

Chevy has won 4 races. Honda zilch.

Is Chevy that worried about Indy?

[dwaldrep51]

I guess this isn't going to stop until it reaches the U.S. Supreme Court

[jandj]

Chevy has appealed the appeal ruling in Honda's favor...per Jenna Fryer tweet.

Chevy has won 4 races. Honda zilch.

Is Chevy that worried about Indy?

I'd say not so much "worry" as "insurance".

[Grizzlor]

All Penske can complain about is he wasn't told in advance. Get over it.

[Formula Indy]

This is ridiculous. The turbo is a series spec part, not an manufacturer part. From the very beginning they were going to make the singles and twins as similar as possible. What could they be having issues with?

[AFColt]

Well, maybe Chevy will win the appeal of their appeal, then Honda can appeal the appeal of that appeal.

[irlracingfan]

I have to admit that the greed of Roger Penske is starting to **** me off. He's won every friggin' race this year! What the hell does it take to satisfy him?

[Glenn]

OK, here's the rub. Chevy (Penske) was not aware of the verbal agreement that they would allow the turbos to be tweaked. Chevy (Penske) looked at the 2 choices: single turbo and twin turbo. They knew the single turbo would spool up slower but would most likely be the best on the super speedways. Here's the kicker. They took a close look at the compressor map on the single turbo and saw that it would run most of it's time in a very inefficient part of the map. So seeing that the single was not well matched to the engine, they chose the twin turbos. Meanwhile Honda got a verbal agreement to tweak the single turbo and the other manufacturers didn't know about this agreement. That last part is speculation on my part, if they knew about it, then too bad, but if they didn't know about it, they have a legitimate gripe.

[Grizzlor]

This is ridiculous. The turbo is a series spec part, not an manufacturer part. From the very beginning they were going to make the singles and twins as similar as possible. What could they be having issues with?

This was agreed on early on. Honda submitted the discrepancy in 2011, and eventually Borg Warner got them the new turbo. All Penske is pissed about is that he wasn't informed.

[Darth Airbox]

Well, maybe Chevy will win the appeal of their appeal, then Honda can appeal the appeal of that appeal.

True story

[crispy]

A professional racing series does not do "verbal agreements".

If, in fact, the questions were raised during the selection process, the question would be answered in written form and given to all parties.

In a professional racing series...

[Darth Airbox]

A professional racing series does not do "verbal agreements".

If, in fact, the questions were raised during the selection process, the question would be answered in written form and given to all parties.

In a professional racing series...

Can you name any racing series that doesn't have shenanigans? I doubt there is a single series on the planet that passes that test.

[irlrules98]

This wasn't a "verbal agreement".....it was a "Verbal notification"----Indycar told them they would match turbos if it became evident there was a single vs twin discrepancy. Professional racing series change rules all the time---written or unwritten, between seasons or in season. This is a non issue unless you are Penske, a Penske fan, or a Penske enabler.

[AFColt]

Can you name any racing series that doesn't have shenanigans? I doubt there is a single series on the planet that passes that test.

No, every other form of racing on the planet never has issues such as this pop up. EVER.

[Swaze]

This whole "turbo gate" saga is just another example of what a selfish egomaniac Roger Penske is and how he always puts himself ahead of the sport.

You gotta love the audacity of Roger and sense of entitlement. His team has won all 4 races to start the season and Will Power is just dominating........and yet Roger wants to run his mouth like he's the victim. This is what happens when success goes to your head and you literally think the entire world revolves around you. It's been that way for years with Penske (he basically controls whatever series he is in)

Let us all remember that Roger Penske did not want a new car/engine in 2012 and let us all remember that Roger Penske is also the reason we don't have aero-kits in 2012.

Every time I justifiably talk trash about Penske's selfish actions, inevitably somebody will respond with how many races or how many Indy 500's he has won and how successful of an operation he runs (as if I don't know this). I've never questioned his success or his know how on running team. He runs a first-class operation, hires good people, and does his homework.........so all of his wins are well earned. What I do question is his sense of entitlement and how he always (and I repeat ALWAYS) puts himself ahead of the sport.

I know this is hard for some people to understand, but you can be very successful and yet still be a selfish, arrogant, hypocrite. You can be very successful but also detrimental to your sport. You can be very successful and yet be ungrateful for what you've accomplished (always wanting more to a point of excess).

Bottom line is that Penske just needs to shut up and Randy needs to publicly tell him to shut up. I know that's hard to do and even harder for Roger to take as his entire career he's almost always been told "Yes...Sir"

[Mario4ever]

This whole "turbo gate" saga is just another example of what a selfish egomaniac Roger Penske is and how he always puts himself ahead of the sport.

You gotta love the audacity of Roger and sense of entitlement. His team has won all 4 races to start the season and Will Power is just dominating........and yet Roger wants to run his mouth like he's the victim. This is what happens when success goes to your head and you literally think the entire world revolves around you. It's been that way for years with Penske (he basically controls whatever series he is in)

Let us all remember that Roger Penske did not want a new car/engine in 2012 and let us all remember that Roger Penske is also the reason we don't have aero-kits in 2012.

Every time I justifiably talk trash about Penske's selfish actions, inevitably somebody will respond with how many races or how many Indy 500's he has won and how successful of an operation he runs (as if I don't know this). I've never questioned his success or his know how on running team. He runs a first-class operation, hires good people, and does his homework.........so all of his wins are well earned. What I do question is his sense of entitlement and how he always (and I repeat ALWAYS) puts himself ahead of the sport.

I know this is hard for some people to understand, but you can be very successful and yet still be a selfish, arrogant, hypocrite. You can be very successful but also detrimental to your sport. You can be very successful and yet be ungrateful for what you've accomplished (always wanting more to a point of excess).

Bottom line is that Penske just needs to shut up and Randy needs to publicly tell him to shut up. I know that's hard to do and even harder for Roger to take as his entire career he's almost always been told "Yes...Sir"

Lots to agree with in this post.

[Moid]

OK, here's the rub. Chevy (Penske) was not aware of the verbal agreement that they would allow the turbos to be tweaked. Chevy (Penske) looked at the 2 choices: single turbo and twin turbo. They knew the single turbo would spool up slower but would most likely be the best on the super speedways. Here's the kicker. They took a close look at the compressor map on the single turbo and saw that it would run most of it's time in a very inefficient part of the map. So seeing that the single was not well matched to the engine, they chose the twin turbos. Meanwhile Honda got a verbal agreement to tweak the single turbo and the other manufacturers didn't know about this agreement. That last part is speculation on my part, if they knew about it, then too bad, but if they didn't know about it, they have a legitimate gripe.

^^^ This

The "agreement" wasn't part of the official recorded notes of the meeting...it was just on some notepads that were kept by participants at the meetings. Also, it was a meeting before Chevy thought about participating in the series, so they weren't present to hear about it. There was no way for Chevy (Roger) to know this was a possibility. So without knowing, they built an engine they felt would be more efficient. However, if they knew the turbo's could be changed, they might have chosen the single turbo instead.

I think there's a legitimate complaint.

[BSJracing]

Well, maybe Chevy will win the appeal of their appeal, then Honda can appeal the appeal of that appeal.

Well unless Penske goes for a 2002 ruling, then of course it's not appealable

[gonzo]

I have to admit that the greed of Roger Penske is starting to **** me off. He's won every friggin' race this year! What the hell does it take to satisfy him?

How do you know Andretti isn't behind this? Or Kalkhoven? Why is Roger getting singled out?

[gonzo]

This whole "turbo gate" saga is just another example of what a selfish egomaniac Roger Penske is and how he always puts himself ahead of the sport.

You gotta love the audacity of Roger and sense of entitlement. His team has won all 4 races to start the season and Will Power is just dominating........and yet Roger wants to run his mouth like he's the victim. This is what happens when success goes to your head and you literally think the entire world revolves around you. It's been that way for years with Penske (he basically controls whatever series he is in)

Let us all remember that Roger Penske did not want a new car/engine in 2012 and let us all remember that Roger Penske is also the reason we don't have aero-kits in 2012.

Every time I justifiably talk trash about Penske's selfish actions, inevitably somebody will respond with how many races or how many Indy 500's he has won and how successful of an operation he runs (as if I don't know this). I've never questioned his success or his know how on running team. He runs a first-class operation, hires good people, and does his homework.........so all of his wins are well earned. What I do question is his sense of entitlement and how he always (and I repeat ALWAYS) puts himself ahead of the sport.

I know this is hard for some people to understand, but you can be very successful and yet still be a selfish, arrogant, hypocrite. You can be very successful but also detrimental to your sport. You can be very successful and yet be ungrateful for what you've accomplished (always wanting more to a point of excess).

Bottom line is that Penske just needs to shut up and Randy needs to publicly tell him to shut up. I know that's hard to do and even harder for Roger to take as his entire career he's almost always been told "Yes...Sir"

Why shouldn't he put himself ahead of the sport? He competes to win. He's a participant plain and simple. Why is his issue any different than the issue the Honda teams have? Why aren't you singling out the guys from Honda that have complained? Why isn't Ganassi being accused of putting himself ahead of the sport?

[goldie19]

And let's put the lack of communication squarely where it belongs....Tony Cottman

His side conversation, his toes (that were ot turned in)

Imagine the bile if Barnhart were involved

[ndcrs]

Chevy has appealed the appeal ruling in Honda's favor...per Jenna Fryer tweet.

Chevy has won 4 races. Honda zilch.

Is Chevy that worried about Indy?

you mean they've "strenuously objected"?

[eastofeastside]

So, is Roger that sure a Honda powered car is going to beat him at Indy? This is what it sounds like to me.

[ndcrs]

All Penske can complain about is he wasn't told in advance. Get over it.

where is jenna's reference to penske?

[Miguel]

This is what happens when you have no clear rules written down. What a mess.

[ndcrs]

OK, here's the rub. Chevy (Penske) was not aware of the verbal agreement that they would allow the turbos to be tweaked. Chevy (Penske) looked at the 2 choices: single turbo and twin turbo. They knew the single turbo would spool up slower but would most likely be the best on the super speedways. Here's the kicker. They took a close look at the compressor map on the single turbo and saw that it would run most of it's time in a very inefficient part of the map. So seeing that the single was not well matched to the engine, they chose the twin turbos. Meanwhile Honda got a verbal agreement to tweak the single turbo and the other manufacturers didn't know about this agreement. That last part is speculation on my part, if they knew about it, then too bad, but if they didn't know about it, they have a legitimate gripe.

glenn, using this argument....remove the 50 or 80# of ballast. lotus/judd built a light engine, maybe seeing the excessive rear weight of the car (maybe not) and weight was added.

[Glenn]

glenn, using this argument....remove the 50 or 80# of ballast. lotus/judd built a light engine, maybe seeing the excessive rear weight of the car (maybe not) and weight was added.

What I have never understood was if Lotus was under the original weight spec or not? Or did they raise the spec weight when Honda and Chevy complained? If the latter is correct, then the Lotus guys should file a claim.

[milliesdad]

Well, maybe Chevy will win the appeal of their appeal, then Honda can appeal the appeal of that appeal.

I like bnanas because they have apeal

[Formula Indy]

Someone at Honda must have really pissed him off.

[midtown]

you mean they've "strenuously objected"?

You can't handle the truth.