Series trying to block Dragon from dumping Lotus

[TUBORG-fan]

I like the rule. Once you commit, thats your engine for the year. Although its a little late after 2 have already left Lotus which makes it unfair to Dragon. I understand the rule but I really dont think Indycar can stop the momentum that has been started. Lotus will be out of this series before too long. They have 3 cars and there's no reason to believe they will have any for next year if things do not improve, the engine is incredibly bad, Lotus is in huge financial debt.

I think its inevitable that Lotus will be ran out of Indycar sooner than later. So I think IndyCar stepping in is really irrelevant long term. Maybe this move ensures 3 manufacturers through 2013 in time to find a replacement for Lotus. I wouldnt be surprised if Lotus leaves as soon at 2013. But Lotus will NOT be here long term. Whether they leave by choice or are forced out because nobody will purchase their engine. You can book that and take it to the bank.

IndyCar is doing what it has to in order to keep 3 manufacturers onboard but IndyCar inevitably CANNOT stop what is going to happen to Lotus (Which is no teams will sign with them).

I like the rule too, IndyCar has been screwed by Lotus and at the moment they are just trying to save themselves. I support that.

Lotus better get their stuff sorted out.

[TUBORG-fan]

Do you think Honda and Chevy REALLY want to take on a team like DRR? Let alone a group like Dragon? They are tired of taking refugees for the sake of the series.

If you signed a deal with Lotus, deal with it. Nobody told you that the engines were all going to be the same, and you can't walk into Renault with a check and demand an F1 supply, nor can you walk into Hendrick's shop and demand Hendrick Cup Chevys for the year. Welcome to racing.

Exactly.

[irlrules98]

Dyson Racing has a Mazda MZR 4 cyl turbo 2.0 liter that makes 550 hp at slightly more than Indycar level boost. Punch it out to 2.2 and back the boost down to Indycar spec and its gonna make the correct power. And be lighter, and get better mileage. Its a non stressed block, so a cradle will need to be made, evening out the weight advantage.

[dcpduke]

A lot of it has to do with the ECU. Lotus being late to the game was never able to fully develop it. Then being behind on engines put a huge strain on their testing program in the pre-season. Chevy was able to have 4-5 cars on track testing different parameters, Lotus was either not there or they had 1-2 cars on track. Then with some of the oval testing cut out, there's a lot of unknowns. There is no doubt during Indy they will work on the ECU, especially considering that the teams will get new engines before the 500, and if they're already banking on being at the back of the pack, a pre-mature engine change isn't really going to hurt them either (f your 3 cars are 30-33rd, you can't really go further back, can you?).

Basically, nobody has really been able to see what these engines can do, since the program isn't optimized.

I don't buy Lotus being late to the show anymore has set back their program. 4 races in and I don't see really any improvement in their package. They could test for the next 3 months and the Lotus will still be slow.

[lindaw]

Would someone please explain why we don't call the Judd engine a Judd engine--what is the significance of calling it a Lotus when it is really a Judd. I've been told Lotus has never made an engine--ever.

[ARROWZ46]

can anyone explain why the Lotus is so bad? Did Judd really make that crappy of an engine?

Pretty simple... lack of $$$. $$$ buys R&D + on track testing. Lotus has been woefully behind Chevy & Honda on almost every aspect of development from the start.

[aaron5572]

Would someone please explain why we don't call the Judd engine a Judd engine--what is the significance of calling it a Lotus when it is really a Judd. I've been told Lotus has never made an engine--ever.

that would be like saying why don't we call a Chevy an Illmor

[Darth Airbox]

that would be like saying why don't we call a Chevy an Illmor

The Honda was also a Ilmor in past years, and it is an HPD.

So the engines are Ilmor, HPD and Judd if one wants to call them by their actual builder.

[ambig88]

What independent builder would show interest given that it is well known they are not welcome?

That's completely different from an engine manufacturer stating that if it weren't for the rules, they would participate. What engine manufacturer has complained about those rules? Heck, what other independent engine manufacturers would have the capacity to supply engines for IndyCar? Cosworth? They have expressed no interest. Everyone thinks if Ford gets involved (which I think is wishful thinking at this point), they're going to go with Cosworth. You guys think the rule requiring a manufacturer badge for an engine is the problem, but there's really no evidence that with or without it, we wouldn't be where we are today.

[Nigel Red5]

I'd take Grand Am's engine rules anyday over limiting it artificially like indycar is.....

[zapp2525]

Pretty simple... lack of $$$. $$$ buys R&D + on track testing. Lotus has been woefully behind Chevy & Honda on almost every aspect of development from the start.

Because of people like Skanke not paying for their engine to begin with, and not having that money for R&D.

[Racing Truth]

Tell that to all those chassis manufacturers.

Uh, they ALL wanted to be "single suppliers, aka spec.

[warped worm]

Would someone please explain why we don't call the Judd engine a Judd engine--what is the significance of calling it a Lotus when it is really a Judd. I've been told Lotus has never made an engine--ever.

Who ever told you Lotus has never made an engine doesn't know what they are talking about. Lotus built engines for the Jensen Healey a four cylinder that then went into the Esprit and other Lotus and also the V-8 that they used in the Esprit. They were also developing an opposed light aircraft engine.

[mikew]

Because of people like Skanke not paying for their engine to begin with, and not having that money for R&D.

I have a great idea for all future IndyCar series team owners. Before they ever consider fielding a team, they should have enough money to pay for it out of pocket instead of trying to get drivers to help them raise sponsors, or make press conferences about their intent to enter the series to try and get more sponsors.

Instead of trying to make a viable business out of running a race car team, they should just do whatever the heck all of those people on trackforum think they should do so that they wont get their name raked through the coals by a bunch of know nothing blowhards. Seriously, some of you seem to think that Shank has perpetrated the greatest crime of the century by attempting to put together a credible entry into the 500. Maybe ya'll would prefer Marty Roth instead.

Seriously, get over yourselves.

[Glenn]

I have a great idea for all future IndyCar series team owners. Before they ever consider fielding a team, they should have enough money to pay for it out of pocket instead of trying to get drivers to help them raise sponsors, or make press conferences about their intent to enter the series to try and get more sponsors.

Instead of trying to make a viable business out of running a race car team, they should just do whatever the heck all of those people on trackforum think they should do so that they wont get their name raked through the coals by a bunch of know nothing blowhards. Seriously, some of you seem to think that Shank has perpetrated the greatest crime of the century by attempting to put together a credible entry into the 500. Maybe ya'll would prefer Marty Roth instead.

Seriously, get over yourselves.

But don't worry, there are absolutely zero owners that read this crap anyway!

[zapp2525]

I have a great idea for all future IndyCar series team owners. Before they ever consider fielding a team, they should have enough money to pay for it out of pocket instead of trying to get drivers to help them raise sponsors, or make press conferences about their intent to enter the series to try and get more sponsors.

Instead of trying to make a viable business out of running a race car team, they should just do whatever the heck all of those people on trackforum think they should do so that they wont get their name raked through the coals by a bunch of know nothing blowhards. Seriously, some of you seem to think that Shank has perpetrated the greatest crime of the century by attempting to put together a credible entry into the 500. Maybe ya'll would prefer Marty Roth instead.

Seriously, get over yourselves.

I guess you would rather have owners back out of commitments ?

Sure Marty Roth showed up when he said he would.

[mikew]

Yeah, just ask Jay Howard about how well that long term contract in Marty's second car went.

[zapp2525]

Where is Jay Howards money ?

[kkoether]

you realize that this open to everyone approach could open the door to something like the 209 mercedes - you ok with that as well...one team dominating the race soley because of engine capability on unlimited R&D budget?

You know a lot of the high dollar development was brought about by the rules that tried to slow things down and make it "cheaper". Since bigger and badder was out they had to start refining what they had. I was involved with ASA in the 80's. They started a sportsmen division that was suppose to be cheaper than the regular late models. It was suppose to be 9:1 compression engines with cast iron exhaust manifold etc. So instead of teams spending $500.00 on a set of 180 degree headers they were spending well north of a $1000.00 on custom machining the insides of those cast iron manifolds making them flow better. It's racing. Somebody is ALWAYS looking for a way to go faster than everyone else. The simple fact is that to win you have to be faster than the competition other wise it would be called taking turns! If your not quick enough to win then you need to figure out how to pick up your game not depend on the sanctioning body to slow everyone else down.

[Since83]

I think Indy will be the last race for Lotus. Honda plus Chevrolet will supply 29-30 starters for Indy. That is enough to cover the field after May. I just don't see the value to Lotus of their showcasing a crappy product week in and week out. Sticking it out through Indy keeps them from being blamed for less than a full field at the 500. So I am hoping HVM and Dragon will soon be out of this mess.

[JimmyB10]

Just curious, but is there a single person that thinks Lotus is going to invest in designing and supplying an aerokit for 2013? If not, then there is no reason for the series to continue to treat them as a legitimate engine supplier.

Back around December it was reported that Lotus had just hired away McLaren's top aero man. Make of that what you will, but it sounds like more than lip service.

[ndcrs]

Would someone please explain why we don't call the Judd engine a Judd engine--what is the significance of calling it a Lotus when it is really a Judd. I've been told Lotus has never made an engine--ever.

call if what you want. iics and lotus call it lotus, so most people just call it the name it's been given. why should we call you lindaw?

[DrivenCrazy]

I beg to differ!!! Until someone can show up with any car and any engine that fits within the rules and attempt to qualify it's still a spec series.

In a spec series anyone can show up with a car and engine that fits within the rules and attempt to qualify. So I don't see your point.
I think you mean to say until there are NO rules (or very, very minimal rules) about what car and engine someone can use to qualify, it's still a spec series.

[Game Bred]

Dyson Racing has a Mazda MZR 4 cyl turbo 2.0 liter that makes 550 hp at slightly more than Indycar level boost. Punch it out to 2.2 and back the boost down to Indycar spec and its gonna make the correct power. And be lighter, and get better mileage. Its a non stressed block, so a cradle will need to be made, evening out the weight advantage.

I really want to see Mazda in but I want to see them bring the Wankel engine.

[Inline]

I really want to see Mazda in but I want to see them bring the Wankel engine.

Make sure you have ear protection!

[ARROWZ46]

Because of people like Skanke not paying for their engine to begin with, and not having that money for R&D.

What about people rambling pure nonsense on specific details of private financial contracts?

What about people making excuses for car manufacturers that have half-assed their ICS efforts from the start & picked a hard working, start-up like MSR as their 1st ICS team?

Blame the bumbling emperors at Lotus for pretending to field a legitimate ICS engine program, not the "small fish" in the series pond that gambled the Malaysian automaker could make 'em a "shark".

[JimmyB10]

Although the Lotus spokesman said there would be testing after Brazil and Pruett concluded that meant they would be at Texas, neither Lotus team is listed among those scheduled to test at Texas.

Has anyone heard for certain that Lotus will in fact not be at Texas? Is it possible they meant testing somewhere else somehow?

I will admit to all those with whom I argued about the jury still being out on Lotus (because of the possibility it was mainly down to ECU issue that could be sorted) that if Lotus does not test at Texas, that is a very bad sign that you guys were right all along. We still need to see what the engine actually does on the track, but no testing on a dodgy engine indicates a company that cannot scoot their chair all the way up to the table to join the poker game.

[kevin99]

I will enjoy this May!

This is why I'm here.

Engine leases suck, but it's May. This is the greatest month (2 weeks now) of the year for Indycar fans, enjoy.

[red5champ]

I really want to see Mazda in but I want to see them bring the Wankel engine.

a turbo charged 1.3 wankel engine breaking track records at Indy. That's what I want to see.

[routier]

About Dragon Racing, declaration of Seabass in the sports newspaper L'équipe "But with Jay Penske, it's a 2 year program".

From an unofficial source directly from the paddock of six hours of Spa, Jay Penske decided to leave Lotus for Chevrolet and is now in conflict with the Indycar to make this change.