DIA, can we make it so that anyone who ever brings up this subject again gets an automatic vacation?
Retrie the number(s)
Don't retire number(s)
Alternative to retiring number(s) - Please post your suggestion
DIA, can we make it so that anyone who ever brings up this subject again gets an automatic vacation?
No numbers should be retired. Why should Moore over other people?
Remember the driver for who they are and not the number.
Can this be made into a sticky and any future posts on the subject get banished to this thread?
Originally Posted by tehlrov
No, no and double no.
I'll see YOU at the races!
There are 2 sides to every story, & millions of interpretations of how famous people interact with the public.
I'm a huge Mario fan, however Andretti was pretty famous for being hot & cold with fans in the 70's & 80's. Mario had just smoked everyone at the Portland CART race (believe it was 1984... its late & I'm old) He's done with victory lane & I'm surrounded by 3-4 other kids & we all see Mario. He seems to be in some debrief with a CART official & one of his team guys... so we all wait quietly & patiently, as Mario looks at all of us & keeps talking.
His group starts to shift to a narrow space between some transporters & where team golf carts + driver scooters are parked. One kid decides to be brave & stand a few feet from Mario & just wait until he's done talking. Remember he has just DOMINATED this race... he has won not lost. Mario never smiled & he also never turned to acknowledge the waiting fan quietly waiting for him... imagine if he had LOST the race? Mario eventually jumped on his scooter & drove away signing ZERO for the people respectfully waiting for him. However I've probably had 4-5 dozen, casual interactions with Andretti since that mid 1980's period & most of them were the polar opposite to the Portland, post victory deal. Imagine if I judged him on the one time.
Greg Moore not signing your autograph (for your son...) that day could have a variety of reasons. I'm not making excuses for Mr Moore, but do you know how often these drivers hear the autograph is for someone else? How many public appearances they do over a race weekend?? It sucks , but somebody has to be the last in line or they could sit there for days signing autographs. Blame crappy PR people for how they handled the line more than the driver who is walking away from it. Richard Petty is famous for signing autographs for 3 hours after losing the 1976 Daytona 500... yet I've met fans with "He's really a jerk" stories about the King after he didn't sign their hero card or stop for a picture
Do you NEED a car this fast...? NO, but do you WANT a car this fast?? YES!!! -Tom Hnatiw
Race CARS Not DOGS!!! Adopt or foster a retired greyhound -Me
this is the most nonsense I've seen on internet forum since Jody from the MSF days.
Yep
If they count CART records as theirs they should honor Greg's number.
“After a month there's a couple of tar balls and a sick bird? I thought this was the worst environmental disaster of all time?.” Wilke
Merge? Hahahaha.
Kind of ironic since his numbered is retired.
http://foytracing.com/aj-trivia
You are absolutely right, you can't judge a person on one example. There are 2 sides to every person. We all can't be charming 100% of the time. It's got to get old trying to be personable to complete strangers. By the way, both examples of Mario and Greg were when they were at a autograph signing session, they weren't just walking through the crowd.There are 2 sides to every story, & millions of interpretations of how famous people interact with the public.
I'm a huge Mario fan, however Andretti was pretty famous for being hot & cold with fans in the 70's & 80's. Mario had just smoked everyone at the Portland CART race (believe it was 1984... its late & I'm old
His group starts to shift to a narrow space between some transporters & where team golf carts + driver scooters are parked. One kid decides to be brave & stand a few feet from Mario & just wait until he's done talking. Remember he has just DOMINATED this race... he has won not lost. Mario never smiled & he also never turned to acknowledge the waiting fan quietly waiting for him... imagine if he had LOST the race? Mario eventually jumped on his scooter & drove away signing ZERO for the people respectfully waiting for him. However I've probably had 4-5 dozen, casual interactions with Andretti since that mid 1980's period & most of them were the polar opposite to the Portland, post victory deal. Imagine if I judged him on the one time.
Greg Moore not signing your autograph (for your son...) that day could have a variety of reasons. I'm not making excuses for Mr Moore, but do you know how often these drivers hear the autograph is for someone else? How many public appearances they do over a race weekend?? It sucks , but somebody has to be the last in line or they could sit there for days signing autographs. Blame crappy PR people for how they handled the line more than the driver who is walking away from it. Richard Petty is famous for signing autographs for 3 hours after losing the 1976 Daytona 500... yet I've met fans with "He's really a jerk" stories about the King after he didn't sign their hero card or stop for a picture
But the reason for my posting is I've felt like I really didn't know the real Greg Moore and I'm looking for good examples to judge him by rather than the one meeting I had.
That number came out of retirement years ago, as shown by the immortal Alex Sperafico:
If you're going to bring up 'records' He never finished higher than 5th in the point standings and finished 10th in his last season.
And you're comparing him to someone with 67 Indycar wins, 4 Indy 500 wins, 7 National Championships, plus a Daytona 500 and LeMans victory and two IROC championships.
"Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate."
2012 Indianapolis 500 Photo Gallery
2011 Indianapolis 500 photo gallery
I understand the emotional attachment some have to Greg Moore, but count me among the group that says no number should be retired. Moore's was only retired in a kneejerk reaction right after the accident. I don't see retiring his number over every other driver who died in an Indy Car. And if you retired the number of everyone who died in an Indy Car, here are the numbers you can't use any more:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
9
10
12
14
15
16
17
18
19
21
24
25
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
40
42
45
50
51
56
57
62
64
67
76
77
81
83
88
92
99
And I've probably missed one or two here and there. It's a bit sobering seeing how long that list is, but there have been a lot of good men who have died behind the wheel. I'm not comfortable honoring one, who accomplished more than most but not near as much as some, while ignoring the rest.
When I think of the 99, I think of Tony Bettenhausen and Belanger 99. What a great year he had in 1951 with that car.
Milwaukee 1
Langhorne 1
Darlington 2
Williams Grove 2
Springfield 1
Milwaukee 10
DuQuoin 1
DuQuoin 1
Syracuse 1
Detroit 4
Denver 1
San Jose 1
Phoenix 13
Bay Meadows 2
Williams Grove
Faster than a bullet from a gun
He is faster than everyone
Quicker than the blinking of an eye
Like a flash you could miss him going by
No one knows quite how he does it but it's true they say
He's the master of going faster. -George Harrison
Thanks for sharing Marc. What a gorgeous car.
...---...
NO, will the split politics ever end?
Race numbers are not retired
You cannot wrangle chaos. You can only try to plan for it.
Numbers should not be retired - a TEAM can choose to retire a number from their use for their own reason - but a series should never retire a number.
The only reason it was retired is that Forsythe owned the series, more or less, and wanted it so. Moore was fantastic, but he was not AJ, an Andretti, Unser, or Mears. Neither was he a Ted Horn or Rex Mays or Wilbur Shaw. No retiring numbers...ever.
Wanker!
I think not.
The best way to honor Greg is to allow drivers who grew up watching Greg to use his number. His memory is kept more alive by some driver running his idol's number than it is by not being used and forgotten about.
No. Racing does not retire numbers. Ever!
As much as I loved Greg Moore, and believe me that's a lot, the #99 should not be retired. Greg was an outstanding, talented racer and a better guy. There's no telling what he would have achieved if not for that terrible halloween day back in 1999. It's a shame we'll never know. Honor Greg's memory in other ways. Red gloves rule . . .
porscheman
@porscheman121 on Twitter #+200HP!
237.498/241.428/242.333 Speeds from the olden days!
Great post porscheman, that's exactly how I feel. Remember this, Greg used 99 because of one of his heros growing up. Shouldnt some kid out there who's hero was Greg be able to use that same number?No. Racing does not retire numbers. Ever!
As much as I loved Greg Moore, and believe me that's a lot, the #99 should not be retired. Greg was an outstanding, talented racer and a better guy. There's no telling what he would have achieved if not for that terrible halloween day back in 1999. It's a shame we'll never know. Honor Greg's memory in other ways. Red gloves rule . . .
porscheman
I was a huge Moore fan in his day and met him and he was total class act. He drove for Player's, who's money came from the Canadian arm of British-American Tobacco, and did not have the rights in the USA to the brand. So Moore, only theoretically needed to be nice to Canadians and the media to promote the sponsor. But no, he sat at Nazareth on a chair in the public walkway in front of the hauler to chat with fans. Didn't have to, but was great to chat with.
Having said that, if any numbers would ever get retired at all, it would have to be Mario or AJ's level of achievement. Even that isn't clear to me what it would prove.
That 99 still means Greg Moore and Player's to me, but it also means Schimdt too. We need to move on.
This isn't about the split or CART or IRL or Indycar, just fond memories are fantastic driver.
Absolutely stupid to discuss retiring numbers, Moore was no better then any other driver that lost life his driving a race car. Geesh, can we put this to rest, finally.
"You just don't know what Indy Means" Al Unser Jr.
Are people really suggesting that we retire the number of an "Indycar driver" who never raced in the Indianapolis 500?
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
I think that would be the jist of it.
43 -- Joe Gosek -- ALTA Team Scandia -- Lola/Ford
The series and records are now merged, however.
Not saying that means it should be done, just that that isn't a reason not to.
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
Then why not retire Jigger Sorois' number? At least he tried to race in the Indianapolis 500.
On second thought, not so sure AJ would approve of that........
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