LOL. You call it a "falsehood," yet you backup that assertion with an opinion based on nothing. If Honda and Chevy don't want to supply 15/15 or 13/13 cars, then that's it. You act as if IndyCar can wave a magic hand, throw out some dollars and the situation would be fixed. You're not just talking about a simple increase in engines. You're talking about an increase in engineering staff, increase in manufacturing, all of which can place a large burden on the company.Again with the falsehoods. They would have supplied half the series at the right price.
But hey, keep on living in crispy world, where all your problems can be solved with money and candy and unicorns and pixies and all sorts of magical adventures!
Last edited by doitagain; 05-07-2012 at 10:32 PM.
This LOTUS deal is a complete joke. 4 races in and they are probably done. No teams wanted them and it seems they really didn't want to be here anyway.
Honda said they preferred competition but if asked they would continue to be a sole supplier but that the price per lease would go up.
That's a fact. So far, you are lacking with facts of your own.
Ain't engine competition grand?
And Honda has stated they don't want to be the sole supplier in IndyCar:Honda said they preferred competition but if asked they would continue to be a sole supplier but that the price per lease would go up.
Honda has dominated the IRL the past two seasons and clinched its second straight manufacturer’s title in Sunday’s Honda Indy 225 at Pikes Peak International Raceway. But while Robert Clarke, general manager and vice president of Honda Motorsports, was celebrating another championship, he could not escape the question of whether Honda would remain with the IRL.
“Well, that’s probably another discussion for another time,” Clarke said. “I don’t want to ruin a good weekend.”
Clarke has held to his comments that Honda does not want to be the IRL’s sole supplier.
On Sunday, however, he changed his stance slightly.
“It’s something that we have to consider,” Clarke said. “Now that the direction of things seems to be more clear, it’s time for Honda to consider what it’s going to do. I can tell you we’ve been very pleased with the relationship we’ve had with the Indy Racing League, what we’ve gotten out of it today.
“We’re not looking to leave. I’ll leave you at that.”
Clarke said Honda is open to exploring all possibilities to continue its involvement in the IRL.
“It’s our preference and our wish to compete against another engine company,” Clarke said. “Whether we can achieve that or not, we don’t know. We have a good relationship with the IRL.”
Because that relationship with the IRL and Honda is so strong, Clarke feels tremendous responsibility to do the right thing.
“I feel that if we left the IRL, it would do damage to both sides,” Clarke said. “I feel some responsibility to that. We came to this series to contribute to make it better and we believe our participation has made it better. To walk away from it would damage it. Although it’s not my decision alone, I believe that Honda in general supports that thinking.”
Yes. Honda will support the series if it absolutely came to it (I never said they wouldn't). But they don't want to!
I'm not. You're just presenting the parts of the truth that supports your own opinion.That's a fact. So far, you are lacking with facts of your own.
Are you done being a child and can we have a serious discussion, or is that too much to ask from you in this section?
Thus, I fail to see the difference between Kent Baker's team and Michael Shank Racing with a Lotus engine....both "could at least go to Indy and try to be one of the 33 in the race". Do you really think MSR (even with a Honda or a Chevy) would be a credible threat to win Indy in their first attempt?
new sig pending
I'd rather have some competition than the minor league spec series we were previously.
Spec series are for the feeder series. International elite racing has technological competition, crispy, whether you like it or not
Not a lie. All I see is you saying "I TOLD YOU SO" and jumping down everyone's throat who likes the current situation over the one you would have wanted. You saying "the series should have done...." isn't a solution. It's trolling.Those of you who criticize the series so much for this have offered no solutions, only whining
Now THIS is a falsehood. YOU LIE! Multiple engine manufacturers with different turbo configuration does not make a spec series, liar.Got some bad news for you. We still have a spec. series...
Again, you threw out "1996." That was not a case of CART choosing not to go to Indy with Indy having no race series to support it. It was a case of the track creating a racing series that displaced CART from the race.Ohhh, 'practically not permitted', I see.
I don't think "Spec." means what you think it means...
With different engine manufacturers, it is not a spec series... Keep up with the lying.One-make racing (known as spec racing in North America) is a racing category in which all competitors race in identical or very similar vehicles from the same manufacturer, often using the same model. Typically, this means the same chassis, tyres and engine are used by all drivers. The idea behind one-make racing is that success will be based more on driver skill and car setup instead of engineering skill and budget. One-make series are popular at an amateur level as they are affordable, due to the use of a common engine and chassis.
If the crux of your argument now rests on me not considering your horrible ideas as solutions, then you win. You got me!Multiple solutions offered by Doc and I. Not the least of which was sticking with a sole supplier. Another was independent engine builders a la IRL 1997. That one got laughed at. Nevertheless, your basic premise is a falsehood. Period.
Come back when you actually have something to discuss.
Gone from one end of the spectrum to the other. Instead of attempting to force a spec. engine series, now they are attempting to force a non spec. series. Either way, the competitors will want what is most competitive if they can afford it, or they won't be in the game for long.
Thanks. You proved my point... "very similar vehicles"
Identical chassis. Identical tires. Choice of sealed engine A or sealed engine B that you picked before you ever ran one.
So any solution you don't like doesn't count? Thus no solutions were offered? That's rich. Why don't you go away and not come back period.
"from the same manufacturer, often using the same model. "
LOL! First of all, I was being sarcastic. Second of all the "solution" with what you offered (and no, I'm not going to go back through and read every single one of your "solutions") is far from a viable solution in the here and now sense. It's far too late to go to a NASCAR style of engine building (not to mention is bloody expensive, and they've practically gone to a lease system where the very rich teams build engines and everyone else leases from them). A solution can't be something that could have been done a year ago. That's not a solution to a current problem. We don't have Deloreans that we can hop into and go back in time and correct a problem. If that was the case a simpler solution would be to not allow Lotus entry into the series.So any solution you don't like doesn't count? Thus no solutions were offered?
Why don't you take your own advice, seeing as how a separate section was created for you to contain your drivel.Why don't you go away and not come back period.
I guess you're starting to run out of room to argue when you're stretching your arguments to this length to make it work. Now you're resorting to the type of lying you're accusing me of to make reality fit your own little insane asylum of a world. Selective quoting! Ignoring arguments you have no argument again! You're trying to change definitions to make your argument work. You are the definition of a logical fallacy.
Again, come back when you have something to actually discuss. My guess is you'll be back but still without the capacity to be logical and adult.
Yup. He's a LIAR!
I think it's debatable whether or not Honda would actually, enthusiastically support the series as a sole supplier indefinitely or for one more season, even, beyond situational PR speak.
It's also highly debatable whwther or not that would result in higher or lower participation from fans and competitors and present a feasible choice for the series.
That doesn't make it a solution, and it doesn't make debating it a lie. That makes it debatable.
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
Still the fact remains, many solutions were offered. Saying that they weren't is and was a lie. Period.
Not one of those "solutions" could be implemented with success before Indy. Not a single damn one of them! If that's a solution, then here's one that's better than everything else! IndyCar should have gotten more manufacturers in the series! Oh, and then they should fill the stands at all the tracks. Then they should overtake Nascar in popularity. INDYCAR! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING? DO IT INDYCAR. JUST DO IT. THOSE ARE THE SOLUTIONS TO ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS!
These solutions weren't offered up after the troubles began three weeks ago. They were discussed LAST YEAR when the current rules were being hashed out by IndyCar. They were offered up as alternatives BEFORE we went down this road.
You'd know that if you didn't just get here yesterday...
"Removing the badging requirement wouldn't fix anything right now."
Maybe they should check with Judd on that. Judd builds customer engines very successfully in many forms of racing and prolly would do so in Indy car. They are in a bad deal with Lotus that is a by product of the Badging requirement.
PS: The sole intent of this thread was to lament the apparent loss of second line drama at Indy this year, and the fact that the engine situation is (apparently) to blame. But it was hijacked by the agenda pirates and now we are in a deep dark cavern that I didn't even know existed. sigh. . .
Perhaps what you've seen is a steady state of declining popularity and various strategies to work around it.