Just ridiculous that 1/10th of the field doesn't choose to participate.
I'd rather NASCAR start 35 real cars, instead of having 10 percent just give up on lap 2.
Just ridiculous that 1/10th of the field doesn't choose to participate.
I'd rather NASCAR start 35 real cars, instead of having 10 percent just give up on lap 2.
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I'm totally fine with start and parks, this is a business. Kudos to them for making it work. There's always been field fillers, hard to have 43 top flight cars.
I'll see YOU at the races!
They don't have to be TOP FLIGHT.
They have to, you know, participate !!
It's like having 4 teams just walk off the NFL field on a Sunday, it's just silly.
The start and park situation and top 35 rule are both ridiculous.
start and parks fly directly against over 100 years of the true spirit of motorsports
if you start near the rear or have a car that isn't as fast as the front runners, you plug along doing the best you can and wait for cars in front of you to wreck, drop out or make mistakes in the pits- at the end of the day you're further along than you were when you started!
I'm hoping that start and parks are just a passing fad that will soon disappear - sure glad we don't have 'em in open wheel!
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I'm with ya on the top 35 rule. But in the old days you had guys like Baxter Price just riding around laps down burning up fuel and tires, why not just let 'em start and park, and make some money.
Not to mention many other things NASCAR has implemented. (GWC, the chase, lucky dog, etc)Originally Posted by Stick500
Yeah, I understand that there were "backmarker" guys, but at least he actually stuck around for more than 2 laps.
This whole, let's announce the list on lap 2 of guys who deliberately dropped out that Mike Joy has to do is a joke.
First time I recall a problem with a "back marker" in a race was Chet Philip #38 Circle K Eagle at Indy being blackflagged for being to slow. Until then - a roving chicane was just part of a race day situation.
Witnessed Mario's "Miracle at Indy"...Watched 3 win their 4th Indy 500...Was there for Petty's 200th win...Saw the last Novi qualify
These guys are operating on a limited budget. Why not just drive around, like some here think? Because if there is a wreck, he does not show up for the next race.
How many in IndyCar fields are in reality start and park...or should be...
You tell us.
Oh, and they don't park.
"We are all speeding toward our deaths at 60 minutes an hour." Sid Collins on Race Day, 1964
At least the s&p teams give some crew members jobs. The 36 used to be a start and park, they got a sponsor and now race every week.
Got a plan for getting rid of start and parks? Otherwise, complaining is futile.
It's one of the few parts of the weekend that's actually open competition: making the race at the back of field for pretty good prize money.
Nascar tried "inspecting" the last place guy and mailing his car back to him in a hundred different boxes, but they decided that was cruel to good people.
Don't pay past 35th? I wouldn't mind that, really. They won't have full fields, but the fields don't need to be so big anyway.
Pull the driver's license if he parks an intact car?
Any other ideas?
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To my knowledge there are no start and park IndyCars.
As you might have noticed, I posted this in the NASCAR board, because NASCAR is the sanctioning body that has people get paid for not actually participating in their events.
Please make a case for NASCAR start-and-parks for me.
Why?
If it was a significant problem for the sanctioning body, the broadcast media, the track/promoter, or the teams themselves, it likely wouldn't happen - right?
"Turn right to go left" Doc Hudson
There are PLENTY of people who pore over every possible thing the IndyCar series does "wrong" in their opinion.
I've been a NASCAR fan since 1976, spending thousands of dollars on merchandise and race tickets.
I want someone to make a case for why it's good that 10 percent of the field picks up a check FOR NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE RACE.
Unless you have a concrete proposal to correct the situation so only the worthy get paid, it's silly for someone to jump through hoops like that for you.
So, if there was no monetary incentive to start and park, what would they do? I mean Nascar could make it so that a team/driver has to complete a certain percentage of laps of the races they enter or prove they couldn't due to mechanical issues. No point, no cash for finishing worse than 25th would take away the incentive to start and park. If a team has so many issues that cause them to pull out after 10% of the laps in all of the races, then they shouldn't be there.
If you break a vase and then glue it back together and the vase loses it's value, you do not get credit for fixing it. You get the blame for damaging it....
I think they are pretty ridiculous too, if you do it the entire season long.
There should be some sort of rule you can only "start-and-park" a certain number of times a year. And after you reach your number, you quit getting paid.
I wonder what a real race driver like Michael McDowell thinks. This is a guy who should be in a Indy Car, if IC didn't have their head up their wazoo for the past 20 years. And his racing career now revolves solely around showing up each week, qualifying a car into the field, taking the green flag and pulling in before the first pit stop.
McDowell isn't racing. He's just wasting his prime years. Although he's getting paid a nice amount to do so.
And there is no way there should be any more then 35 cars in Nationwide anymore. Half of that field now is complete junk and start-and-parkers. There is simply not enough demand (or money) for 43 Nationwide starters.
Prime Minister of Gackland
43 is just a number.........
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Nobody likes it but it gives 4 or 5 teams a reason to exist and those 4 or 5 teams need employees and spend money
and theres nowhere enough of that going on in most industries these days
If you have start and parkers you have about 3 dozen cars on the track at lap 10.
If you cut the starting field to 35 you have about 3 dozen cars on the track at lap 10
Id be PO'd if I was the track owner paying them but Im not and right now its more or less a cost of doing business right now
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You could pay $x per lap and make it so it covers the tire bill and makes it worth the risk to run. I do know that percentage wise, purses are flatter now than they used to be. They could change that, but I think the top teams want a flatter purse.
That said, these teams do provide jobs in racing and probably an entry in for some guys who might not otherwise get a chance. Chad Knaus got his start with Stanley Smith. Who knows what future champion crew chief is working on a start in park right now. I can see the future article now, "..... because just qualifying was our deal, we learned a lot of tricks about getting it done, I remember thinking that if we had a top team budget, we'd win pole every week..."
Not to mention the team just staying alive during the lean years may just be able to make the leap in the future to a more successful team.
El Grillo Cantor
And it's such an odd number, too. It used to be that the field on big tracks was 40 cars with two provisional spots in case a regular had issues so you would have 42 cars. It only went to 43 with the Champions Provisional at the tail end of Richard Petty's career. I think fields should be set at 42.
Pay by number of completed laps.
I'm from a place called the internet. Nothing disturbs me.
What I don't understand is why a sponsor tolerates it rather than moving down a division to a car or truck that actually races, or moving there money to a different series entirely. Is it really better to have your name in front of the Cup audience for 10 laps than in front of a Nationwide or IndyCar audience for a whole race?
Congratulations to RHR, & all the winning drivers & teams in the fantastic 2012 season. Looking forward to 2013!
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Do they have honest to God real sponsors or are they typically running with the car owners company on the flanks? I really dont know.
This is the NASCAR forum....if you have comments on IndyDar, you should post them on the IndyCar forum....
IIRC, "Little Joe" is the guy who bought the 33 from Childress.
I think Taco Bell and Long John Silvers on the 34 and the 38 are bogus. Bob Jenkins owns a bunch of those stores.
No. Partially. The 43 came years after Petty retired.
Before 1997 the amount of cars allowed to qualify was determined based on the number of pits available.
In 1998 they mandated a set number of starters at 43. In 1997 Nascar had reserved 38 spots for the top qualifiers with 4 provisional openings (which made 42) then the past champions provisional made 43. If the past champions provisional wasn't used, then there were only 42 starters. If it was used, you had 43. I think Sonoma was a special case where one extra spot was allowed for a Winston West competitor, bringing the count up to 44 for that race. In 1998, Nascar just made it 43. If the past champions provisional wasn't used, it was given to someone else.
In 1996 they had as few as 36 cars and as high as 44 at Pheonix and Sonoma.
I do not remember it being an issue at the time but Ive looked thru the old line ups in my programs from the 1980s and 32-36 cars were the norm at Dover
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