Yes it does!Originally Posted by KevMcNJ
It all depends on where you grew up
Dick Trickle
Lee Raymond
Retrie the number(s)
Don't retire number(s)
Alternative to retiring number(s) - Please post your suggestion
Yes it does!It all depends on where you grew up
Dick Trickle
Lee Raymond
Keith Koether http://www.kkraceshots.com
Ex ARCA, ASA and local bullring crewdog. I remember when racing was really racing and the Talladega Express!!!
If you don't know Greg or if you've never seen him race!You may not want to retire his number, which like you Lotus, I can appreciate that. But there are clearly people in this thread that don't have a freaking clue about Greg that are trying to turn this into an argument that it isn't. Pathetic.
Like I said, clueless. Instead of arguing about him you would think they might take this opportunity to learn more about him.
Yes, unfortunately it does. Highlights the immaturity of the fanbase that currently exists. It would be nice to think that Greg could be what finally brings the fans together in this big giant mess and I am going to see to it that one day it eventually does.
Last edited by gonzo; 05-06-2012 at 11:57 PM.
"Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.
No, why should they?
Pretty weak is how it is.
I can't believe there are this many posts in this thread. I haven't and won't read all of them but I am 100% opposed to the retirement of any race car driver's number.
Center Grove Trojans
2008 5A Football State Champs
2011 Track State Champs
Because people like you insist on defining his career by his stats!
Who says he needs to? An entire organization disagreed with you when they DID retire his number and created a trophy in his honor. Another organization disagreed with you entirely also when they inherited the trophy and maintain the tradition.
What is lost on you is that he was a great driver. You just never got to see it develop.
So career stats are the only thing that define a person in your view?
Ya, cause that is what it is all about, simple Champ Car fans trying to stir up the pot. Clearly you do not understand if that is the conclusion you draw from all of this.
So, let me see if this is right: No one can ever again run the number 99 in the Indianapolis 500 in honor of a guy who never raced in the Indianapolis 500?
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
Should be a testament to how incredibly gifted and special a driver he was when he can have this sort of affect on people having accomplished so little statistically don't you think?
Beacuse lots of people on Trackforum might have liked him and stuff
Faster than a bullet from a gun
He is faster than everyone
Quicker than the blinking of an eye
Like a flash you could miss him going by
No one knows quite how he does it but it's true they say
He's the master of going faster. -George Harrison
Him being a nice guy and a good racer isn't a very good reason to retire a number.Should be a testament to how incredibly gifted and special a driver he was when he can have this sort of affect on people having accomplished so little statistically don't you think?
Preface: I loved Greg Moore.
Question: Why retire his number and not that of Bill Vukovich?
I'm yet to hear a really compelling reason why his number should not be retired. All I have heard is the limited mob mentality that seems to monopolize this forum these days. Nobody retires numbers in racing, he never raced at Indy, his stats are crappy or my favorite thus far, we will run out of numbers. Ya, let's burn him at the stake everybody rah rah!!! Wow, real compelling case. This mob mentality is exemplified by those that feel the need to comment or contribute to this thread without even reading through it. Absolutely pathetic and telling of ones attitudes towards the sport. It's also above all else extremely discouraging!
The reality is he didn't need Championships or Indy 500 victories to be recognized as an extraordinary competitor. The reality is his number was retired but that tradition was not carried over when the two series' merged.The reality is he was recognized as an extraordinary person when after the merge IndyCar maintained the tradition of honoring Greg's legacy by continuing to award the trophy of his name.
I'd like to share with you, especially goldie who asked me, and who at least shows a willingness to learn something about the rich history of this sport regardless of his views on whether the number is worthy of retirement.
From the book, Greg Moore: A Legacy Of Spirit
What is it about an athlete that causes a country to revere him by the time he is 24 years old? What is it about an athlete that leads his colleagues - his competitors - to bask in his spirit, his humor, and his light even though they are more experienced, older, and perhaps more successful? What is it about an athlete whose death breaks a million hearts and brings a million tears?
What is it about Greg Moore that caused so many to fall in love and so many to be devastated when he died?
Greg's life was a celebration of youth, spirit, accomplishment, and charity. He was doing what he loved, with people he loved and respected. He was succeeding as an automobile racer and, even more, as a human being.
He inspired everyone to act openly, positively, and with good humor. His easy grin and natural outgoing friendliness captured people's hearts and minds. When you met him felt he was a friend for life. He made people feel like he was one of them, whomever they were, whatever their position. If you got close enough to say hello, to catch his eye, you felt you knew him. And anyone who knew him well thought of him as a man beyond his years, unusually free of the emotional and personal conflicts of youth.
Although he seemed settled and mature, Greg Moore still revealed a sense of adventure and wonder. His achievements as a driver were impressive and have assured him a place in the galaxy of greats. Yet his spirit of sincerity and goodwill is the abiding memory that will live on.
Im sure Jovy Marcelo was a nice guy. He was Filipino so he was special in his own way too.
Youre disgusting.
Back on ignore you go
What would be a good reason then?
Why isn't AJ Foyt's number retired?
It isn't about the Indy 500 Doc, it is about IndyCar racing and what more fitting a place to restrict the use of the number than the birthplace of IndyCar racing!
You haven't presented a compelling reason as to why his number should be retired. You're the one making the case and petitioning for it. It's your job to make the case. Not the other way around.
What mob? No one i ganging up on him, putting him down, insulting him. Do you honestly think Greg Moore would like you using him and his memory as a way to insult other people? Do you think Greg would want to see people arguing over having his number retired, and do you think Greg would really care? Damn man, celebrate his life and stop using it to push your own damned agenda!All I have heard is the limited mob mentality that seems to monopolize this forum these days. Nobody retires numbers in racing, he never raced at Indy, his stats are crappy or my favorite thus far, we will run out of numbers.
The only arguments put forth for retiring his number was that he was a great competitor, a great friend, he has a trophy and CART/Champ Car retired his number. I'm sure he was a great friend, and I agree that he was a great competitor and I'm glad he does have a trophy. But there were a lot of things carried over from the merger and some things not. A merger doesn't mean you have to retain everything from the two entities. The cars were dropped, IndyCar's/IRL's records generally supersede CART's/Champ Car's record, the management from CART/Champ Car wasn't retained. A lot of things were dropped, and this was one of them. You disagree. Fine. Many of us apparently disagree with you. That doesn't make us horrible people, as much as you're trying to portray it as.
You are sick. Please go away.Ya, let's burn him at the stake everybody rah rah!!!
What about YOUR attitude? You're utter and total lack of respect towards other people's opinions. Your continuing perpetuation of this asinine argument. Your apparent pigheadedness in arguing simply to argue, as if you enjoy reading what you type. It's a tiring act, and I don't know why or how the moderators have allowed it to continue when most other people would have seen the ban hammer by now!Wow, real compelling case. This mob mentality is exemplified by those that feel the need to comment or contribute to this thread without even reading through it. Absolutely pathetic and telling of ones attitudes towards the sport. It's also above all else extremely discouraging!
The reality is Greg wasn't the only one who was an extraordinary competitor. The reality is many other competitors who have perished at Indy and in the series have never had their numbers retired, a tradition that has been going on for over 100 years! A tradition that supersedes that of CART, USAC, IRL, Champ Car or whatever name you want to assign to the lead open wheel racing series in America! The reality is that IndyCar could have ended the trophy that is in his name but they chose not to! Would you have rather seen the trophy discontinued?The reality is he didn't need Championships or Indy 500 victories to be recognized as an extraordinary competitor. The reality is his number was retired but that tradition was not carried over when the two series' merged.The reality is he was recognized as an extraordinary person when after the merge IndyCar maintained the tradition of honoring Greg's legacy by continuing to award the trophy of his name.
THERE IS NONE! How much clearer can I or anyone else be?
What is weak is you never bothered to address my other comments. What about the fact that some drivers might want to honor his memory and keep it alive by using his number. I think that honors the memory of Greg a lot more than having a number not used and end up forgotten. Just because you think it should be retired, doesn't make it so. Also, very good drivers who die in racing cars tend to have their greatness exaggerated with what they could have accomplished. Greg was damn good, clearly one of the best of his time, but an all time great, we'll never know just like we don't know if Gilles would have become an all time great.
Sure I have, you apparently don't read.
Actually I enjoy reading what other people type. I know its a novel concept but it's why I come here, to enjoy sharing discussions about IndyCar.
What? Trying to engage fellow fans in a discussion? If it is so tiring then don't read or interact with me. It's a pretty simple solution. My feelings won't be hurt. I'd actually feel better seeing the masochism stop.
Gonzo, I'm not in favor of retiring anyone's number in any major league sport for whatever reason. Although I'll always think of AJ Foyt with the number 14, he doesn't have exclusive rights to it no matter how great he was. There's better ways to honor athletes in my opinion. Ernest
Which ones? You mean the one where you said you now hope his number is never retired in some tantrum against those that have elevated him to some status you disagree with? That comment? Or did you mean the one where you were pissed off that his family sued. I didn't think either of those comments were worth a response.
Ohh, some new rationale! Fair enough, but you didn't share that comment before.
Are you so sure I think his number should be retired? I don't remember saying anywhere in this thread that his number should be retired. Can you show me where I have said that?
Like I said, mob mentality!
You clearly recognize him as "one of the best of his time", your words not mine, and the best of his time included such legends as Michael Andretti, Al Unser Jr., Alex Zanardi, Gil DeFerran, Bobby Rahal, Dario Franchitti, and Paul Tracy. So your statement is rather contradictory of itself. Unless you agree that you yourself are exaggerating his greatness by claiming he is "clearly one of the best of his time".
Like what?
You're crystal! End of discussion with you I guess.
I do read. Why is it you get to say our arguments aren't compelling, yet you get to assert that your own arguments are compelling?
You don't act it. We type something, then you tell us how wrong we are.Actually I enjoy reading what other people type. I know its a novel concept but it's why I come here, to enjoy sharing discussions about IndyCar.
No. I guess I have to re-quote myself as you missed it all the first time:What? Trying to engage fellow fans in a discussion? If it is so tiring then don't read or interact with me. It's a pretty simple solution. My feelings won't be hurt. I'd actually feel better seeing the masochism stop.
And in particular in this thread:What about YOUR attitude? You're utter and total lack of respect towards other people's opinions. Your continuing perpetuation of this asinine argument. Your apparent pigheadedness in arguing simply to argue, as if you enjoy reading what you type. It's a tiring act, and I don't know why or how the moderators have allowed it to continue when most other people would have seen the ban hammer by now!
Do Greg a favor and stop this argument. There is literally no point in it. It's not our hearts you have to win over. All you're doing is just being disrespectful to Greg, his family and the family and memory of the numerous other driver's who have died in IndyCar.Do you honestly think Greg Moore would like you using him and his memory as a way to insult other people? Do you think Greg would want to see people arguing over having his number retired, and do you think Greg would really care? Damn man, celebrate his life and stop using it to push your own damned agenda!
This thread will go no as long as people keep responding.
Fact. The number 99 will live on.
I liked Greg Moore. It's a shame he never got to race at Indy, and tragic that he was gone so soon.
I'm not in favor of the #99 being retired in his honor in this case though. However I would feel differently about the #14 being retired for obvious reasons. That being that the #14 belonging to AJ did far more for much longer in the sport than Greg. Just my opinion.
My first Indy 500 was 1973, haven't missed one since 1981. To date I have attended 35 Indy 500's, and probably 100 or so other IndyCar races (CART & IRL).
How 'bout end of discussion with everybody? You say there has been no compelling reason not to retire his number but I have yet to hear a compelling reason to elevate him above the dozens of other drivers who have died and retire HIS number.
"Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate."
2012 Indianapolis 500 Photo Gallery
2011 Indianapolis 500 photo gallery
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks