Retrie the number(s)
Don't retire number(s)
Alternative to retiring number(s) - Please post your suggestion
Firstly I want to thank Gonzo from sharing some fascinating quotes from fellow CART drivers at the time. It's a shame that rather than those who never saw him race wish to say hs number shouldn't be un-re-retired and simply want this thread closed or attack gonzo in a personal manner rather than hear and learn about who Greg Moore actually was and why those that would like to see the number still retired feel that way.
Originally Posted by Paul Tracy
"I remember his first race at Homestead. I fell out of the race early and he was coming through the field and making outside passes and I remember thinking this guy is crazy! But he was making these outside passes work and it was unbelievable to see. That was my first memory of him as a competitor. I thought, Man, this guy is going to be tough once he gets it all figured out."
Back in 1996 he started the year very strong. I felt he did better than Zanardi who had the full support of Team Target and the PPG cup winner Jimmy Vasser that year. Greg was leading at Rio the second race, and then at the speedway of Nazareth, he was passing guys like Fitttipaldi and whoever around the outside of turn 5 early on! that was when I knew this guy was going to be something real special. One of those drivers that comes a long every 10 years or so. He had a lot of bad luck and his results don't reflect how well he ran in the soul Player's #99 those first 2 years.
I remember when his motor broke at all places at the Marlboro 500 at Fontana in the closing stages. His first win was beautifull in the respect that he managed to hold off Michael Andretti who I always felt was the best driver at that period but never had the ultimate package who was always the king at Milwaukee and to see how gracious he was to win for the first time and honoured made me a fan for life.
His win at Rio in 1998 where he was sideways coming out of turn 4 trying to catch Zanardi just a couple of laps before and then that amazing switch and then dive to the outside doing the impossible showed how natural and special he was around that flat bumpy roval to do what no one had ever done there before at Emerson Fittipaldi Speedway. Not many drivers and you can put all time greats into this could find grip where this guy could on the ovals. And the ironic thing is he would have come with Penske in the IRL and the haters that never knew him would have seen just how special this guy was.
I also never knew how Jackie Stewart felt that he was trying to snatch him up for Formula 1 and spotted him from an early age. I guess he saw him when he was trying to get his man Gil de Ferran to come on over.
Those comparing him to Brayton as a driver are just laughable. I liked Brayton but him and Moore were two different drivers and I wish people would still chucking Moore in with Brayton as just another driver that got killed doing what he loved and didn't win much.
Last edited by red5champ; 05-07-2012 at 08:59 AM.
Red, this isn't about knocking Greg or CART or CCWS. To my knowledge no open wheel series has ever retired a number other than CART with this one. When Greg passed, Sam Schmidt was running the 99, and CART had nothing to do with Indy.
What you are asking is for the NBA to retire a number for the ABA. Same sport, different league. IndyCar never retired the number...they don't retire any numbers.
This is NEVER going to happen, and the fact that it won't, or that some fans don't want it to, doesn't mean we don't respect or like or LOVE Greg! There is no reason, statistically, to retire the number. Many great men have passed on in racing. We simply don't retire their numbers. It's a complete insult to every other driver who died to pick one over the other!
Again, this has NOtHING to do with Greg or his record...it's just something that isn't done!
"I think there's only so many people that can take care of themselves, and can take care of other people. And the rest of the people … they're useful in terms of compost for the whole planet, you know." - Bill Murray
For the record, I am very glad that I was at Michigan in 1998 to see one of his wins. A great weekend spoiled by an ugly crash, but still, glad to have seen Greg win.
I was in at pit exit...had no idea about the results of that crash until driving home that evening
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
imagine the internet in 1961 when Tony B was lost, I loved greg,, but I think of Tony B when I think of 99,, ya see ,, its generational,
I love the sport more than I hate the past,
"I think of Indianapolis every day of the year, every
hour of the day, and when I sleep, too. Everything I
ever wanted in my life, I found inside the walls of
the Indianapolis Motor Speedway."
- Eddie Sachs.
Not to hijack, but what is QFT? I've seen it a few times today
I never understood retiring racecar numbers. It's one thing to retire a number/jersey of a great athlete in football, hockey, baseball etc because they usually have it hanging from the rafters for all to see. But a retired racecar # does the opposite. It takes that # off the track. I prefer to see those #'s again. I like seeing Tags in the #98 because it reminds me of the great month of May Wheldon had last year. And when I see someone else in that #98 years later, it will still bring back good memories. Sure the tragedy will come to mind, but the good memories will always last too.
It's a league game, Smokey
"Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less" - R.E.Lee
No one mentions that a bonehead move by Moore ended Emerson Fittipaldi's racing career. The good has to be measured with the not-so-good...
Never retire a number.............
"Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six"
" Only Those Who Will Risk Going Too Far....Can Possibly Find Out How Far One Can Go "...T.S. Elliot....
"Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.
All drivers make boneheaded moves. Sometimes people even get killed. Not everyone remembers that Mario ran over and killed a crewman at (IIRC) Handford in 1969. Jacky Ickx has been involved in about 5 or 6 fatalities. Accidents are part of the game and they happen to just about everyone.
I'm sure this has been posted before but it's a good story. The photo of Christian Fittipaldi, Adrian Fernandez, and Max Papis vividly illustrates the crushing grief these men experienced. Papis, always ebuillant and talkative, was barely able to speak.
As compared to Schumacher's 91, seven championship and (maybe) still counting...... all this for a man who only had six wins over a five year career.
For comparison, Ralf Schumacher won six grands prix and so did Riccardo Patrese and Jacques Laffite.
thanks for the link, some very interesting quotes there and stories about Greg. I would love to copy some quotes but it would be the whole article!
here's some of my favorite.
andHis Indy car racing debut on the tricky original quad-corner Homestead-Miami Speedway layout was nothing short of sensational. Greg qualified sixth, but lost a lap when he was penalized for a pit infraction on the 70th of 133 laps. In the second half of the race, he drove through the 26-car field to unlap himself and worked all the way back up to seventh place by the checkered flag, turning the fastest lap of the race with just two tours remaining.
Vasser, who went on to win the 1996 CART championship, scored his first race win that day at Homestead. But his abiding memory is of the precocious rookie who stole the spotlight.
"I was leading and pulling away from second place when this blue car suddenly appeared in my mirrors," recalled Vasser. "My guys told me not to worry because he was a lap down, but he went around the outside of me in Turn 3 and I was glad he wasn't on the lead lap."
"When Greg first came on the scene, I thought, 'What a sharp, articulate, intelligent guy,'" said racing legend Mario Andretti. "He was very professional and mature for his age. He always had something to say, but he didn't ramble on. He said something meaningful. And of course his driving was just the same. He was going to make a mark for himself, no question.""I think Greg was the best guy I ever raced on an oval," Dario continued. "He was unbelievable in those [CART] cars. You can slide a modern [IRL] Indy car around a bit; there's a certain sort of yaw you can drive it in, where it's not too much of a problem. But the old Champ Cars, they would slide, and if they slid once and you didn't catch it, if you allowed it to snap again, it would bite you. And Greg could just hang that thing out there all day! He just drove the thing on the edge, and I don't know of anybody else that did that.""Greg would have won at least three championships and three Indy 500s," said Kanaan, another of Moore's closest friends on the circuit. "We would have been talking about him like we do Rick Mears or Al Unser Jr."
Here's a list of five time winners. Looks like Eddie Cheever and Greg Ray made the list.
A. J. Allmendinger
Wally Dallenbach, Sr.
You guys are STILL having this circular argument?