Tim Richmond Question

[atrackforumfan]

The tragedy of Tim Richmond sprouts from the facts the dude had about as much natural talent behind the wheel as God gives anyone but he had a bigger desire to waste so much of it.

Aside from catching a disease that no one understood and dying from it, how did Tim "waste" his talent? He won occasional races with Beadle before Hendrick. In his one healthy year with Harry Hyde and Hendrick, he won the most races of anyone in the series, pretty much tied Waltrip for second in points (Tim won the last race of the year and Darrell finished fourth to end up 4 points ahead), was named NMPA co-Driver of the Year with Earnhardt. The team visibly was getting better week by week during 1986 and was loaded for bear for 1987.

Part of the package that was Tim Richmond was that he was on the dumb side of brave. He wasn't going to be an intuitive fool on the track and suddenly morph into Bobby Allison in the garage.

[Stick500]

what I recall about the Richmond story is that he apparently knew he had a fatal sexually transmitted disease and still continued to have sex and infected, and killed, several of his last partners

sorry, but absolutely no sympathy for the guy

BTW, back then, as it is still today, it is a very rare occurrence for a white heterosexual male to catch AIDs from a women - if simply being promiscuous was the primary way to catch AIDs, rock stars, movie stars and athletes would have been falling like flies over the last 3 decades

apparently some of the girls Tim hung out with were needle sharing as that was a typical way for women to get AIDs in those days

[uh_clem]

Tim liked prostitutes

That's what I heard.

[Chris Paff]

Cool photos! Thanks for posting them..

[Buckeye Bullitt 93]

Here is a photo I found of Tim taking that fateful walk out to his car to qualify for his last race at Michigan August of 1987.

[Sea Fury]

what I recall about the Richmond story is that he apparently knew he had a fatal sexually transmitted disease and still continued to have sex and infected, and killed, several of his last partners

sorry, but absolutely no sympathy for the guy

BTW, back then, as it is still today, it is a very rare occurrence for a white heterosexual male to catch AIDs from a women - if simply being promiscuous was the primary way to catch AIDs, rock stars, movie stars and athletes would have been falling like flies over the last 3 decades

And they have been. It's not "rare."

[Raceworder2.0]

Aside from catching a disease that no one understood and dying from it, how did Tim "waste" his talent?

Part of the package that was Tim Richmond was that he was on the dumb side of brave.

As I posted above: "the dude had about as much natural talent behind the wheel as God gives anyone", but I'd still edit your last line to read "the dumb side of stupid" for the reason Richmond died of AIDS is because he partied much more than he raced; Timmy was just too dumb to realize (or care) how stupid his lifestyle choice actually was. And that's where the "waste" comes in.

In an earlier generation, maybe Richmond would've just done the booze and the women and the racing, and got by with a few arrests for PI and/or DUI, maybe caught herpes or syphilis or gono, and carried on in spite of those negatives. But Tim lived as fast as anyone of any generation off the track as well as on and he did it during a decade that introduced mainstream America to both cocaine and to one of the most fatal human immune system viruses ever known to man.

I sincerely believe all that partying only made his own immune system that much more weak and, thus, more greatly inviting to the ravishes of AIDS he encountered in others he partied with who already carried the virus.

I'm blessed that I never took a liking to cocaine like so many of the folks in the sport I worked with in the 80s: I think I snorted it two times to see what all the rave was about, and I remember freebasing one time for 3 days (I think ) with 3 other people: 2 of whom are/were Indianapolis "legends". The blast-off and lift-off to orbit from freebasing was the most incredible (artificial) "high" I've ever experienced in my life, but coming down from that height was thankfully so much more incredibly worse that those were the only times out of the thousands of opportunities I cared to freely partake in a culture that saturated large swaths of the American auto racing community during the 80s. And I do mean "culture" - at one stretch during the 80s, the majority of folks I was associated with in Indy car, NASCAR, and NHRA were doing coke or selling it...and/or both. I finally had to totally desert that particular "community" to escape the dreariness that naturally enslaves all who continue on in it. It was a difficult decision because all these folks were dear friends, friends, and/or business associates - and I had to chop them off to survive myself.

Like all "celebrity" deaths, Tim Richmond's attracted its own share of rumor(s), but I know these two facts: Tim liked to party and Tim died of AIDS - anything else doesn't really matter to me in regards to his death.

[Chris Paff]

As I posted above: "the dude had about as much natural talent behind the wheel as God gives anyone", but I'd still edit your last line to read "the dumb side of stupid" for the reason Richmond died of AIDS is because he partied much more than he raced; Timmy was just too dumb to realize (or care) how stupid his lifestyle choice actually was. And that's where the "waste" comes in.

In an earlier generation, maybe Richmond would've just done the booze and the women and the racing, and got by with a few arrests for PI and/or DUI, maybe caught herpes or syphilis or gono, and carried on in spite of those negatives. But Tim lived as fast as anyone of any generation off the track as well as on and he did it during a decade that introduced mainstream America to both cocaine and to one of the most fatal human immune system viruses ever known to man.

I sincerely believe all that partying only made his own immune system that much more weak and, thus, more greatly inviting to the ravishes of AIDS he encountered in others he partied with who already carried the virus.

I'm blessed that I never took a liking to cocaine like so many of the folks in the sport I worked with in the 80s: I think I snorted it two times to see what all the rave was about, and I remember freebasing one time for 3 days (I think ) with 3 other people: 2 of whom are/were Indianapolis "legends". The blast-off and lift-off to orbit from freebasing was the most incredible (artificial) "high" I've ever experienced in my life, but coming down from that height was thankfully so much more incredibly worse that those were the only times out of the thousands of opportunities I cared to freely partake in a culture that saturated large swaths of the American auto racing community during the 80s. And I do mean "culture" - at one stretch during the 80s, the majority of folks I was associated with in Indy car, NASCAR, and NHRA were doing coke or selling it...and/or both. I finally had to totally desert that particular "community" to escape the dreariness that naturally enslaves all who continue on in it. It was a difficult decision because all these folks were dear friends, friends, and/or business associates - and I had to chop them off to survive myself.

Like all "celebrity" deaths, Tim Richmond's attracted its own share of rumor(s), but I know these two facts: Tim liked to party and Tim died of AIDS - anything else doesn't really matter to me in regards to his death.

I am glad you got yourself out of that lifestyle.. Coke is some serious stuff

[Stick500]

And they have been. It's not "rare."

sorry, but I stand my original statement

it is extremely difficult and rare for a white male heterosexual to contact AIDs from sex with a women- always has been

please name one rock star, movie star or athlete who fits the above description who has died from AIDs in the last 20 years- they are not dropping like flies

now, the story in Africa with hetero men, and throughout the world with gay men, is certainly a completely different story as millions have, and continue to suffer from the disease

the reasons hetero men in Africa catch it so easily are not completely understood but there are some theories

but for white heteros in the US to have unprotected sex with lots of women is not the huge AIDs risk the media and govt. would like us to believe

[Sea Fury]

sorry, but I stand my original statement

it is extremely difficult and rare for a white male heterosexual to contact AIDs from sex with a women- always has been

please name one rock star, movie star or athlete who fits the above description who has died from AIDs in the last 20 years- they are not dropping like flies

now, the story in Africa with hetero men, and throughout the world with gay men, is certainly a completely different story as millions have, and continue to suffer from the disease

the reasons hetero men in Africa catch it so easily are not completely understood but there are some theories

but for white heteros in the US to have unprotected sex with lots of women is not the huge AIDs risk the media and govt. would like us to believe

Why do you make a distinction between white and black people?

Every source I can find states that heterosexual contact is the most common method for sexual transmission of the disease.

[doitagain]

Let's not gp off on that tangent here. Thanks.

[Big G 94]

I did a long, one-on-one interview with Tim Richmond one time, in the days when you could just walk up to somebody in the garage area and say "got time to talk" without going through 67 layers of P.R. flack protection. One of the best interviews I ever had at a race track and one of the nicest experiences I ever had at a race track. I wasn't big time, I was somebody from Podunk, but at least for that moment in time ... and it certainly may have been practiced, but from what I saw of the guy he was that way with everybody even when there wasn't a notepad, tape recorder or camera involved ... it was like he was completely and totally locked in on the same wavelength with me, as far as giving me his total attention without any distractions, which is what you want from an interview subject. (He still loved Indy, BTW, and I think if things had played out differently, he eventually would've tried the double, he actually talked about it and this was when he was in Beadle's car so it was 10 years before anybody tried it.)

I also sat in the office at the same speedway and watched the track P.R. guy talk a highway patrolman into fixing a ticket for Tim that he'd gotten for more than doubling the speed limit on the road in front of the track.

I also heard the same things about his fetish for female companionship and while I don't want to get into the tangent about heterosexual AIDS, if he WAS engaged in that particular fetish, particularly at that point in time, it was like playing Russian roulette with multiple bullets in the chamber as far as putting oneself at risk.

IMO he was one of the greatest talents behind the wheel I've seen in about 45 years of watching this sport, as far as what he could do with a race car. He also apparently had a compulsion to push the limits, without regard to the consequences or its effect on others, that he might very well never have matured out of. We can sit here and talk about how reprehensible it was for him to keep banging girls after being infected ... I agree with that characterization ... but at this point that's between Tim and the Almighty, if you're a believer, or Tim and Karma if you're not. And sure, by the usual definition it's a tragic situation ... but quite honestly, I don't think some people are destined to get old. He was one of them.

The biggest thing that Tim Richmond did ... and you old-line guys will know what I'm talking about ... the females who used to hang around the garage gates looking to score with a driver disappeared. In a hurry.

And they may have just kept it quiet and away from the track, but you stopped hearing the wild tales about drivers screwing around ... which WAY predated Tim Richmond, BTW, and would give a few Hall of Famers red faces if they were revived now.

[Indy500Dude]

It wasn't uncommon for people to hide AIDS until right before they died, no matter what people saw happening. Look at Freddie Mercury. We all know how nasty the Brit tabloids can be; they had been dogging him about it for years, and nothing was said publicly until literally right before he died.

As I remember it, Tim Richmond got sick, went into the hospital for some treatment, came back and won a race or two, and then the whole "drug test" thing happened, and NASCAR essentially blackballed him-but, as has been pointed out, nobody knew much of anything about the disease back then. Doesn't excuse it, and it's deplorable in retrospect, but it's kind of understandable given what most people thought they knew at the time. Still, and I'm not referring to NASCAR per se, but there's no doubt that such ignorance and stigma caused a lot of people to hide until it was too late, costing them their lives....it makes me sad, and it makes me angry.

It's amazing that attitudes about AIDS turned around as quickly as they did a few years later. It's sad, too: if Tim or Freddie had contracted HIV just a few years later, they might still be with us.

Still, what a terrible disease.

Freddie Mercury with Queen at Live Aid, 1985:



Freddie Mercury's last Queen music video, "These Are The Days of Our Lives," 1991:

There are still a lot of folks out there that think AIDS is only a gay disease. To me NASCAR to this day still treats Tim bad.

[rrrr]

Let's not go off on that tangent here. Thanks.

Just a second...

In the early to mid 80s, there would be massive protests in some towns when the word would come out that a person had AIDS, especially if it was a kid in the school. You'd get protesters (of the ilk that resemble the Fred Phelps folks of today) picketing the streets and demanding they ship him off to Antarctica. Parents would pull their kids out of school, and it would make national news.

This is a gross distortion of the truth. One of the most, if not the most, visible protests of this nature was against Ryan White, an Indiana teenager who contracted AIDS in 1984 at the age of thirteen from a blood transfusion. While some people wanted him removed from public school, the outcry was nowhere near the scene described above. From a period news article:

INDIANAPOLIS — Ryan White, shunned by a small Indiana city five years ago, was embraced by the nation Tuesday as he fought his latest, and most critical, struggle with the effects of AIDS.

President Bush, Hollywood celebrities, students at his high school in nearby Arcadia and well-wishers in towns big and small conveyed their support and sympathy to White, 18, who is hooked up to a life-support system in a hospital here.

While his fight against the disease may be near an end, the outpouring demonstrated how the young man has triumphed over the ignorance that surrounded AIDS when he was diagnosed only five years ago. It also demonstrated how he taught the nation a lesson in compassion.

"It was through his case and battles that we all became educated" said Charles Vaughan, a lawyer who has represented White and his family. "You can`t even quantify it. He exposed us all to something we all need to know about."

Vaughan represented White as he fought to attend public school in Kokomo, Ind., over the protests of some parents and students who feared the disease might spread through casual contact.

White won that battle in 1986, but, embittered, he and his mother, Jeanne, soon moved to Cicero, Ind. Unlike the panic in Kokomo, he was greeted warmly at Hamilton Heights High School in Arcadia. After the media attention given to his controversy, children with AIDS in other towns throughout the nation found a more tolerant atmosphere in the schoolhouse.

"He was a pioneer for everyone in that situation" Vaughan said.

In 1988, White mesmerized a presidential committee on AIDS with his tale and in 1989 a television movie re-created his struggle.

"Ryan White helped spread a tremendous amount of compassion and understanding about AIDS" said Rene Durazzo of the San Francisco AIDS Foundation. "I think he helped reduce the barriers put up as far as hatred and helped break through those barriers."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...e-rene-durazzo

A timeline of Ryan's illness:

http://ryan-white.memory-of.com/Timeline.aspx

There is no doubt many people with AIDS were the victims of prejudice in the 80's...I know a little bit about it because the brother of a good friend died from the disease in 1984.

Advances against the disease continue to be made. The African anti-AIDS initiative started by President George Bush is credited with saving thousands of lives. Testing HIV positive is no longer an automatic death sentence. Thankfully most of the fear and prejudice is gone too.

[doitagain]

N.Y. Parents Vow School Boycott in Protest Over Pupil With AIDS - September 09, 1985

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-09-...mmunity-school

Parents Group Calls For End Of School Boycott In AIDS Dispute (New Jersey)

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1985/Pa...0619cbc4e067a6

School Boycott Threatened by Parents Afraid of AIDS (Tennessee)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=3690,2673424

Family in AIDS Case Quits Florida Town After House Burns

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/30/us...use-burns.html

[Chris Paff]

N.Y. Parents Vow School Boycott in Protest Over Pupil With AIDS - September 09, 1985

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-09-...mmunity-school

Parents Group Calls For End Of School Boycott In AIDS Dispute (New Jersey)

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1985/Pa...0619cbc4e067a6

School Boycott Threatened by Parents Afraid of AIDS (Tennessee)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=3690,2673424

Family in AIDS Case Quits Florida Town After House Burns

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/30/us...use-burns.html

I don't blame the parents for not wanting their kids in school with a kid with AIDS.. I remember even in the late 1980's everyone was scared about AIDS.. Remember there was no internet then, information was not so available as it is today.. People were scared and rightly so.. It was a different time.. Once information was spread things calmed down.. Hell you hardly hear anything about AIDS now..

[Hardscrabble]

please name one rock star, movie star or athlete who fits the above description who has died from AIDs in the last 20 years-

He didn't die, but, um...some guy named Magic...

I'm sure there are others we don't know about...

[Chris Paff]

He didn't die, but, um...some guy named Magic...

I'm sure there are others we don't know about...

Roberto Alomar

[Sea Fury]

Eazy-E

[KevMcNJ]

sorry, but I stand my original statement

it is extremely difficult and rare for a white male heterosexual to contact AIDs from sex with a women- always has been

please name one rock star, movie star or athlete who fits the above description who has died from AIDs in the last 20 years- they are not dropping like flies

He didn't die, but, um...some guy named Magic...

I'm sure there are others we don't know about...

Its splitting hairs but

Its been over 20 years ago that MAgic made the announcement that he was HIV positive

I dont think hes white either

[flatlander_48]

I think it was Magic Johnson that spearheaded the turn in the tide in public opinion. There's another one of those 30-For-30 style documentaries that came out about him...and it gives a good snapshot about what AIDS was like at the time, and how far society has come.

In addition, I would add Arthur Ashe and Elizabeth Glaser, wife of Paul Michael Glaser...

[rrrr]

N.Y. Parents Vow School Boycott in Protest Over Pupil With AIDS - September 09, 1985

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-09-...mmunity-school

Parents Group Calls For End Of School Boycott In AIDS Dispute (New Jersey)

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1985/Pa...0619cbc4e067a6

School Boycott Threatened by Parents Afraid of AIDS (Tennessee)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=3690,2673424

Family in AIDS Case Quits Florida Town After House Burns

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/30/us...use-burns.html

No massive protests or pitchforks. There was fear, but it was local and didn't last long. I didn't say these things didn't happen, I said the "massive protests" "of the ilk that resemble the Fred Phelps folks of today" was untrue. Your links support that. Thanks.

[rrrr]

In addition, I would add Arthur Ashe and Elizabeth Glaser, wife of Paul Michael Glaser...

Greg Louganis too. These celebrities and athletes helped lessen the stigma associated with AIDS and HIV, allowing focus on research and treatment instead of fear brought on by lack of knowledge.

[Tifositoo]

Arthur Ashe contracted AIDS from a blood transfusion, just like Ryan White did.


Dan

[Neshaminy]

That Rock Hudson guy seems to come to mind.......but he's no longer able to speak for himself as are all those who've passed.......funny how that works.

[flatlander_48]

Arthur Ashe contracted AIDS from a blood transfusion, just like Ryan White did.


Dan

As did Elizabeth Glaser. The point related to those who helped to change public opinion. How one contracted the disease was not the point.

[Doctorindy]

N.Y. Parents Vow School Boycott in Protest Over Pupil With AIDS - September 09, 1985

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-09-...mmunity-school

Parents Group Calls For End Of School Boycott In AIDS Dispute (New Jersey)

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1985/Pa...0619cbc4e067a6

School Boycott Threatened by Parents Afraid of AIDS (Tennessee)

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=3690,2673424

Family in AIDS Case Quits Florida Town After House Burns

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/30/us...use-burns.html

I'd say arson ranks right up there with the 'pitchfork mentality.'




A little bit of video coverage, shown in The Announcement documentary. There was a lot of fear at the beginning. But it fizzled quickly once the public began to become educated about the issue.

please name one rock star, movie star or athlete who fits the above description who has died from AIDs in the last 20 years- they are not dropping like flies

The timeframe (last 20 years) isn't quite a fair assessment. It was about 1991 when they came out with AZT and the drug "cocktail" which has been fairly successful in controlling HIV in many patients. So specifically in the last 20 years, HIV/AIDS has not been nearly as terminal as it was in the 80s.

[Stick500]

The timeframe (last 20 years) isn't quite a fair assessment. It was about 1991 when they came out with AZT and the drug "cocktail" which has been fairly successful in controlling HIV in many patients. So specifically in the last 20 years, HIV/AIDS has not been nearly as terminal as it was in the 80s.

fair enough- but I'm arguing that the specific group of people I'm talking about (white heteros in the US, which apparently is what Richmond was) never did amount from the very beginning all the way till now, to any more than 2% of all the AIDS cases in this country- so even with the drugs saving lives these days, the numbers from that group still aren't there

it is very difficult for a man to catch AIDS from a woman in this country (the exception is what is happening in Africa which is mentioned below)

these two excerpts are from a 2004 article in Details Magazine
http://www.aliveandwell.org/html/ris..._happened.html


Since doctors first reported the outbreak of a mysterious new disease in 1981, an estimated 900,000 Americans have been diagnosed with AIDS. Nearly half of them were men who had sex with other men, 27 percent were IV-drug users, and another 7 percent were both. But the politically incorrect truth is rarely spoken out loud: The dreaded heterosexual epidemic never happened.

Straight men and women make up 90 percent of the population, but they account for only 15 percent of non-childhood AIDS cases. Only 6 percent of men with AIDS, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says, contracted the virus from straight sex. And even that figure doesn't hold up to a closer look. Several studies now suggest that most men who claim they got the virus this way are lying. They got it from sex with other men or sharing needles with addicts. Those studies also show that many women listed in the straight-sex category are either IV-drug users themselves or have likely contracted AIDS from sex with an IV drug user.

Health officials have known these things for years. A growing pile of federally funded reports on HIV transmission, published over the past decade and available to anyone who has the time to read them, shows that men almost never get HIV from women. In fact, according to a 1998 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association, a disease-free man who has an unprotected one-nighter with a drug-free woman stands a one in 5 million chance of getting HIV. If he wears a condom, it’s one in 50 million. He’s more likely to be struck by lightning (one in 7000,000).

Female to male transmission is very inefficient, says Dr. Nancy Padian a professor in the department of obstetrics, gynecology and reproductive science at the University of California, San Francisco and the author of a 1996 10 year study of HIV infected heterosexual couples, the nation's longest and largest. She points out that “its two to three times easier for men to infect women.” But even so, if there are no other risk factors involved, the rate at which an infected man will transmit the virus to a woman is one in 1,100 sex acts.


2nd excerpt

In parts of the third world, AIDS has, in fact, exploded among heterosexuals. But it has taken hold only in some regions, and among people whose immune systems are already crippled. For instance, the African epidemic is largely confined to the sub-Sahara, where malnutrition, poor health care, and such diseases as malaria and tuberculosis are rampant. In addition, because of their country’s history of apartheid, many South Africans live and labor in squalid camps hundreds of miles from their homes. There, men with untreated STDs will often have sex with HIV infected prostitutes, contract the virus themselves, and bring it home to their wives, who, when they get pregnant, pass it along to their children. (Rural China, where similar conditions exist, is also suffering.) Oprah and Bono have lured TV crews to blighted African villages where the heterosexual epidemic is real. Viewers at home are left with the impression that AIDS—always the equal opportunity killer—could yet make its way into their own bed if they’re not careful.

there's a whole bunch more in the article link above