No, I don't think ABC has anything to do with it. I was just pointing it that the sky isn't suddenly falling. These are the same ratings that IICS has been getting for a decade. The perception around here is that this is a recent phenomenon.Originally Posted by TexManZero
I don't think it's a recent phenomenon ..
But I do think with unification a new president a new car etc we all had a reasonable expecting to have an improvement in TV ratings
We haven't... I'd suggest that is a concern
That's a great point. The ratings have flat-lined for a long time, yet IndyCar is still here. I'm not so sure that TV ratings are all that important any more. Whose ratings are way up over the past decade? MMA is, but they are a new sport. NASCAR? Aren't they down a bit in the past 10 years? What longtime sport's rating are up over the past decade?
A. They why are you here for the other 11 months of the year? Every late April through May I see posters pop up and discuss the 500 and then disappear again until the next year. If your opinion is that low of the series perhaps that's what you should do
B. The dumbest part of your post is trying to say Indycar drivers only push for the 500. OF COURSE there going to push for the 500 just like cup drivers for Daytona and F1 for Monaco is the signature race. What do you expect? The rest of the year obviously you don't feel like this but the racing has been great. But point racing does happen. Personally I think it takes greater precedence in NASCAR over F1 and Indy but our drivers still have to be aware of it. And that's going to affect how they race.
I'd rather have 10% of the world interested in the ICS than 50% of US that NASCAR currently has
+1
But with that being said I don't think these are bad ratings as others have pointed out. There the same ratings. Nothing more or less. Like I said in another thread if RB gets the HG family to open the pocket book big time, I hope one of the things they do is re work the TV contract to permit NBC to broadcast some of the races that our currently on NBCSN.
Thanks for the clips Gonzo. Seeing the Penske and Lola reminded me of how beautiful those cars were. No matter how well it races and how hard I try to like it, the DW12 looks like a fat *ssed sled on TV. Television is a visual medium; why couldn't Dallara have given us beautiful cars to watch?
I would love to see IICS management try to persuade potential investors and sponsors by saying "TV ratings are[n't] all that important anymore."
You are deluding yourself if you think these are the fastest cars on ovals. The only reason they are is because F1 isn't racing ovals nor are top level prototypes.You know me, I'm always in favor of "faster"
I realize, of course, this is reality though
Maybe you need to be at a race, get a dose of reality. Sounds like it's been a long, long time
Myself, I find it easy to describe the fastest oval racing in the world "compelling". Open wheel cars with exposed helmets going over 190 mph gives me the willies on any track. Closed cockpits and wheels at those speeds, and in those confines, would be compelling as well, because there's nobody else there doing it that fast.
That didn't used to be the case. It used to be F1 was quicker on the turns therefore road courses, and IndyCar was quicker in a straightline therefore ovals.
It's no longer the case. IndyCar is just slow and it isn't fooling anybody. Did you see how few people there were in Toronto? That place used to be one of the hotbeds for IndyCar racing and its practically dried up and gone now.
Keep fooling yourself T13. It isn't doing anybody any good. You go watch one of those Audis scream by on the Mulsanne straight and tell me IndyCars are the fastest on ovals. Did you see Silverstone and those high speed sweepers? IndyCar would get smoked if either of those cars ever hit an oval.
"Try some of these before or after your statements if you are not presenting them as facts. Things like - "In my opinion", or "I think that", JHMO, IMHO, IMO, JMO... Your opinions are not (necessarily) fact. That would clear things up some." - Seadog 03/25/2010 11:40am So the above is JMO.
While I agree that the broadcast team can't drive ratings up, I would argue they can drive them down.
I used to watch Indycar races almost always live. Especially with ABC, I began to put more and more races on TiVo, and then fast forward to the "good" parts after reading a race report. Now, I rarely bother to TiVo a race on ABC, I just can't stand the broadcast team (I include the directors, who could broadcast the demolition of a bridge and miss the main explosion), they completely ruin watching a race. If you take me alone, ABC has driven my "rating" to ZERO.
Because there are still aspects that I do enjoy. As a fan of the series, they can't afford to lose me for the other 11 months. I continue to hold out hope that it improves.
What's so dumb about it? You just agreed with me that its the case. So if they are trying harder for one event it stands to reason they aren't trying as hard in other events. Doesn't that scream of an issue to you? What do I expect? I expect the series to place more emphasis on winning individual events and less emphasis on the championship.
The television broadcast is your front line sales team. They can help or hinder your popularity.
No? You guys disagree. Take it off the air then and see what happens!
Take a few moments and go to jayski and look up some of the articles about the dearth of passing and hard racing in NASCAR currently. We have a lot of issues but racing hard is definilty not one of them. Its why Bruton brought up the mandatory caution idea, as silly as it was between the aero issues, point system, and length of races fans have been screaming about the poor product in NASCAR for the last 6 months.
Our guys are always going to push hard but trying to compare Indy to the rest of the season is silly in IMHO.
I don't have the issues you do with the ABC team but just a suggestion I read a lot of NASCAR fans who hate the Fox crew and watch the race with the sound turned down and listen to the radio call. Might want to try that. This year all NASCAR radio broadcasts are free via the internet just like us. I think the Indy broadcasters can be a little homerish at times but I like them.
NASCAR has their own issues which I am fully well aware of. Its a different beast. IndyCar is my first passion. You need look no further than this past weekend in Toronto and how few people were there to recognize that there is a giant issue that is not getting resolved. And it isn't the split and it isn't Tony George that is the cause. It is a product that has failed to improve since being ripped apart. For every one fan like T13 running around saying these are the fastest cars on ovals, there are ten others in places like Toronto, Long Beach and Milwaukee saying this series and its racing fails to compare!
Do yo not get this isn't about what I like or need. Its about what the series needs to do in order to grow and prosper. Turning down the volume isn't going to solve a damn thing. Toronto was damn near vacant as compared to the attendees that event used to get. That is because the product is a pale comparison of what it once was and the people on TV charged with selling it to the masses are doing a horrible job pointing out the positive aspects of it.
Chill the eff out dude. 1st off the comment was NOT directed at you 2nd it was a suggestion on how some NASCAR fans watch the race when the Network they hate is broadcasting it, nothing more.
I'm done arguing this with you. You've made it very clear that you feel the product that has failed. I feel the product is great and we have other issues. Nothing is going to come out of this because your not going to get me to remotely agree with you, much like me getting you to change your opinion that the product has failed.
Remind me again what the ratings were for Iowa and how many fans were in attendance for Toronto. Ya, the product is perfect. If the product is so perfect why is nobody watching?
I don't think the crowd in Toronto was any smaller than it has been the last couple of years. I did notice many first time fans wandering around asking for directions.
My question would be with ratings, what is the relationship between the number of people that will devote 2 hours to watch a race on TV, and the number of people who will actually go to the effort to go to a race. When you only have 400,000 in the country who will go to the effort to watch the race on TV, how do you expect large crowds to show up at a race. That is only an average of 8,000 people per state watching on TV. My guess would be in any sport that more people will watch it for "free" on TV than pay money to go in person.
That is something about which we will never have to fret. Until one of those Audis or other formula cars give it a go why even speculate? It is pointless.
Maybe it is time to drop it then. I think the glory days of Toronto were mostly tied to sponsorship activation by Molson and not some utopian fantasy by those who refuse to budge from a place nearly two decades removed.
Actually, people are watching. Just not enough to suit pessimistic critics. In terms of actual reality:
-St. Pete - Great crowd.
-Birmingham - Great crowd.
-Long Beach - Great crowd.
-Brazil - Great crowd.
-Indy - Extraordinary crowds.
-Belle Isle - OK crowd.
-Texas - Great crowd.
-Milwaukee - Much better than '11 and enough to sign on for three more years.
-Iowa - Great crowd
-Toronto - OK but not great crowd.
The relative 'stinkers' are street courses.
Television ratings are roughly the same as they have been for over a decade.
It is my belief the expectations of those screaming the loudest far exceeds what is reasonable to expect. The new car has far exceeded what most expected in terms of quality racing and the points battle this season has a welcome new look.
My biggest problem with this season is that it is too short.
-The Residing in 2012 Disciple of INDYCAR
Ya lost me at Texas....."Great Crowd" .....really?
Absolutely. People get hung up because every seat is not filled. That is a mistake given a stadium that size.Ya lost me at Texas....."Great Crowd" .....really?
-The Realistic Expectations Disciple of INDYCAR
Well if that cloud passed over.
If just staying afloat is the highest ambition for the series it can do that forever because of the 500. I would think, or at least I hope everyone connected to INDYCAR has their sights set higher. If they don't then let's put me in charge and at least we'll be aiming higher.
The reason INDYCAR ratings are at issue is they started a little low at the split time frame and have gone down to where we are now. But in that span of time the things people said were desperately needed; one series, turbos, new car, adding some road courses, a 50/50 schedule, Danicamania, a Danica victory, THE NEW GUY IN CHARGE who wasn't Tony George and even more all happened. Shouldn't there have been some uptick from the combination of all those?
And it's not just ratings. In 2001 when they started to go to Kansas and Chicagoland the stands were really well populated. Don't cite the Track packs when it was INDYCAR fans who wanted them eliminated. The attendance dropped annually. The attendance never came around at any ISC track, Kentucky and they all disappeared. Milwaukee hasn't seen a full house in 15 years and one as dark. We're going through a period now wanting to get 19 races for 2013 but having trouble finding permanent tracks that are willing to cough up the million+ dollar sanctioning fee. Not because they dislike the racing bu because they don't think they can fill enough seats.
the TV ratings are not some odd occurrence that isn't reflected in every other aspect of the sport, they're a symptom of what's going on and all the things that need to be done will be shown as effective by among other things those ratings going up.
"You can't arrest those guys, they're folk heroes"
"They're criminals"
"Well most folk heroes started out as criminals"
Your spin is simply incredible...Texas was not well attended...
By what metric? Just about every critical comment I have read here has been subjective based upon whatever bias those nattering on hold. Relative to just about anything else that sells tickets, it is, in fact, great.
-The Heaping Helping of Actual Reality Disciple of INDYCAR
The metric being my attendance history at the facility...I've never seen it that empty...facts, not bias John...and you know it...
Additional facts:
-That crowd was larger than any NBA game.
-That crowd was larger than any NHL game.
-That crowd was larger than most MLB games.
-That crowd was larger than most NFL games.
Again, the dismissive assessment of most is highly subjective. Comparisons to utopian days of yore is also not only subjective but pointless. Every seat has never been filled at that venue for IndyCar.
Here is a constructive suggestion: If it is as 'lousy' as obsessed critics complain, what gets the numbers higher?
My thoughts are that IndyCar needs to lose its pompous attitude, particularly regarding 1.5 mile ovals, jacking the schedule around and a propensity in particular of poking Eddie Gossage with a stick whenever they get a chance....and Eddie needs to cultivate thicker skin and work as hard as he used to sell tickets simply because he is a fan of the genre and has a long history with it. The old-married-couple bickering I am seeing in that relationship is inexcusable.
-The Marriage Counseling Disciple of INDYCAR
It definitely looked thinner than prior years, though maybe not a TON thinner than 2011's race. Still more people than most IndyCar races, but in that venue it certainly doesn't fight the perception problem. And of course, even if not a ton thinner than the prior year, downward is the wrong way to be trending.
The Texas crowd could be bigger that those crowds and look absolutely empty, big as that place is.
The problem wasn't the crowd in absolute numbers; it was the image presented to viewers flipping past of an event nobody cares about, combined with a downward trend, even if a fairly gentle one. We can discuss how big of a problem those two factors are, but it's a tough sell to claim they aren't a problem at all.
Nationwide Series pulled 1.6 on ESPN Friday Night.
http://pressdog.typepad.com/dogblog/...lat-at-16.html
Formula One pulled .8 on FOX Sunday.
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2012...rance-indycar/
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