Calling people girly-men, or other such names

[FTHurley]

I'm not fishing here, I'm genuinely trying to gauge community standards.

In my world, making fun of men by calling them effeminate, or girly-men, or gay, or limp-wristed, or ... well, you get the idea, is something that sort of died out about five or ten years ago. In my day to day life, I literally never hear stuff life that, even playing basketball at the gym. I suspect this may be a regional thing. It's just so rare in my life that it's jarring when I hear it. It's especially jarring to hear my entire generation labelled that way.

I'm sure I'm being too sensitive about it, but am I the only one who finds it offensive? If so, I'll just let it go, but it seems like such a bizarrely outdated thing to use to belittle someone.

If I'm just in the tiny minority here, then I'll just deal - it's not the end of the world either way - but I was curious from a sociological perspective whether anyone else finds that line of trash talking to sound sort of antiquated.

[midtown]

I'm not fishing here, I'm genuinely trying to gauge community standards.

In my world, making fun of men by calling them effeminate, or girly-men, or gay, or limp-wristed, or ... well, you get the idea, is something that sort of died out about five or ten years ago. In my day to day life, I literally never hear stuff life that, even playing basketball at the gym. I suspect this may be a regional thing. It's just so rare in my life that it's jarring when I hear it. It's especially jarring to hear my entire generation labelled that way.

I'm sure I'm being too sensitive about it, but am I the only one who finds it offensive? If so, I'll just let it go, but it seems like such a bizarrely outdated thing to use to belittle someone.

If I'm just in the tiny minority here, then I'll just deal - it's not the end of the world either way - but I was curious from a sociological perspective whether anyone else finds that line of trash talking to sound sort of antiquated.

Maybe if you wouldn't wear a "salmon" colored shirt, this wouldn't be a problem.

[FTHurley]

Maybe if you wouldn't wear a "salmon" colored shirt, this wouldn't be a problem.

Fair enough.

My wife bought me that shirt!

[Swaze]

First of all quit getting offended so easily, that's what "girly men" do. The older generation is generally more insulting and more crude with their insults and they got by fine for years until all of this politically correct culture really got going.

I know what you mean and while that kind of talk and those terms are somewhat antiquated there is at least some truth to it and you've gotta understand where it is coming from.

I'm 31 and I've gotta admit my generation has a substantial population of girly men. We've got 30 year old dudes who wear scarfs in the summer and wouldn't know a hammer or wrench if they saw one. The generation below me (Bieber Generation) is even worse. You see some of the hipster teenagers around here and the dudes look like chicks and the chicks look like dudes.

For the older generation I can't blame them for being confused and a little agitated by it. They've never seen anything like it and the younger generations expect them to change the way they think and talk......not going to happen.

If you've seen Gran Torino (and I'm sure you have) do you remember the Barber Shop scene with Clint Eastwood, the barber, and the teenager? Remember Clint explaining how his generation shoots the breeze with each other? Insults are just part of the daily vernacular.

Finally how is this not a "girly man" ?

[FTHurley]

First of all quit getting offended so easily, that's what "girly men" do. The older generation is generally more insulting and more crude with their insults and they got by fine for years until all of this politically correct culture really got going.

I know what you mean and while that kind of talk and those terms are somewhat antiquated there is at least some truth to it and you've gotta understand where it is coming from.

I'm 31 and I've gotta admit my generation has a substantial population of girly men. We've got 30 year old dudes who wear scarfs in the summer and wouldn't know a hammer or wrench if they saw one. The generation below me (Bieber Generation) is even worse. You see some of the hipster teenagers around here and the dudes look like chicks and the chicks look like dudes.

For the older generation I can't blame them for being confused and a little agitated by it. They've never seen anything like it and the younger generations expect them to change the way they think and talk......not going to happen.

If you've seen Gran Torino (and I'm sure you have) do you remember the Barber Shop scene with Clint Eastwood, the barber, and the teenager? Remember Clint explaining how his generation shoots the breeze with each other? Insults are just part of the daily vernacular.

Finally how is this not a "girly man" ?

Thanks for the reply. Fair points.

I would just point out that the generation full of Justin Bieber has also produced the dudes from Generation Kill. Depends on how you want to slice up a generation. I mean, the guys demeaning my generation also grew up with Donovan playing on the radio and dancing in a mud field hoping if they sang loud enough it would end the war.

[midtown]

I'm 31 We've got 30 year old dudes who wear scarfs in the summer and wouldn't know a hammer or wrench if they saw one. The generation below me (Bieber Generation) is even worse. You see some of the hipster teenagers around here and the dudes look like chicks and the chicks look like dudes.

No worse than what you saw on MTV in the eighties.

[ElMaestro]

Even while posting under "ElMaestro", I would tend to agree with FTHurley that folks would be more inclined to be pleasant to one another if they were forced to post under their true identities.

I try not to be an as*hole when posting and try to adopt a "speak to others as you wish to be spoken to"; however, there's little doubt that some posters get their jollies being crude and rude to posters simply because they can do so anonymously.

[comfortably numb]

Girly man is an all encompassing term. It can be applied to those who are gay, metro, suits, geeks, you name it.
In person it may be a problem.
On the net, pfft...

[mdkiel]

...folks would be more inclined to be pleasant to one another if they were forced to post under their true identities.

Actually I would be worse.

[ElMaestro]

Actually I would be worse.

Does your spouse agree with that?

I'm betting that 95% of the blowhards on this forum would clean their act up if they had to post under their real and verified name.

[skypigeon]

If you've seen Gran Torino (and I'm sure you have) do you remember the Barber Shop scene with Clint Eastwood, the barber, and the teenager? Remember Clint explaining how his generation shoots the breeze with each other? Insults are just part of the daily vernacular.

Wouldn't say they're part of the "daily" vernacular, but you bring up a good point here. Keep in mind the generation of Eastwood grew up in the Great Depression and the Second World War. Tough times required tough men. Not just physically tough, but mentally tough. Gotta let it roll off your back. Why? Because being "sensitive" (or, using my mother's preferred term, a "pantywaist") meant you weren't tough enough to do real work. If you had a family that could mean starvation for all, not just you; what jobs were available in the Depression were going to the men. The war made work plentiful, but if you were a young man of that time everyone wanted to know what you were doing home, letting your friends and brothers put their asses on the line for you instead of you putting your ass on the line with them.

With that working in the background, assuming it didn't drive you insane--and fact is, for many, it did--what's a few insults among friends? Just another way of letting each other know you're in this together, that's all; as long as it didn't involve your family or woman. Those things you'd better be ready to teach some mouthy fool a lesson for; but towards you personally? Big deal.

Yep, times have changed. A lot.

[railroad]

Girly-men aren't the problem. It's the Nancy Boys you need to worry about.

[Doyouloveit?]

Are the 1990's and early 2000's generation of kids just the symptom of the over sensitive and litagious society we live in today? I'm 29 and when I was in high school (10 years ago), football was still king, and now football is too rough and dangerous. Heck, I don't think two-a-days are allowed anymore in high school, at least not back to back days. Or is the definition of "bullying" be taken too far? Getting participation medals/ribbons? Getting punished for beating a team too badly? Or having to play every kid on a team in middle school and pre-varsity sports?

[FTHurley]

Are the 1990's and early 2000's generation of kids just the symptom of the over sensitive and litagious society we live in today? I'm 29 and when I was in high school (10 years ago), football was still king, and now football is too rough and dangerous. Heck, I don't think two-a-days are allowed anymore in high school, at least not back to back days. Or is the definition of "bullying" be taken too far? Getting participation medals/ribbons? Getting punished for beating a team too badly? Or having to play every kid on a team in middle school and pre-varsity sports?

I think there's definitely a great discussion to be had about how our society treats competition and child-rearing. I just get sick of hearing my entire generation characterized as somehow useless based on some cherry-picked photos of pop stars and hipsters, when it's my generation fighting two wars in the Middle East and paying for the baby boom's social security without any real hope of having it for ourselves later on. My generation isn't better or worse. We're just adapting to different challenges.

[Doyouloveit?]

I think there's definitely a great discussion to be had about how our society treats competition and child-rearing. I just get sick of hearing my entire generation characterized as somehow useless based on some cherry-picked photos of pop stars and hipsters, when it's my generation fighting two wars in the Middle East and paying for the baby boom's social security without any real hope of having it for ourselves later on. My generation isn't better or worse. We're just adapting to different challenges.

I agree 100%.

[Gateway Fan]

I think there's definitely a great discussion to be had about how our society treats competition and child-rearing. I just get sick of hearing my entire generation characterized as somehow useless based on some cherry-picked photos of pop stars and hipsters, when it's my generation fighting two wars in the Middle East and paying for the baby boom's social security without any real hope of having it for ourselves later on. My generation isn't better or worse. We're just adapting to different challenges.

I think reminding those putting your generation down of these very things will take the starch out their arguments right away.

[Doc Austin]

This thread has turned me gay.

[FTHurley]

This thread has turned me gay.

Don't worry; that's cool now. This is a safe space.

[comfortably numb]

This thread has turned me gay.

Again???

[FTHurley]

Again???

I told him to stop going to that bar, but he wouldn't listen.

[Grover]

Pussies












j/k

[mclarke]

In my generation, we tended to use a great many terms and insults, racial, sexual, and crude, without worrying in the least about whether the term used was more offensive through definition than it was through intended usage. Younger people seem to be more conscious of the words which they use, which simply makes them more devious than more sensitive, in my view.

To get very specific for a moment, I find the specific term " girly man " to be cringingly unpleasant, reflecting more on the user than on the person being addressed by the words. While I know the history of the term within American politics, I will always associate it with SNL and the satire of Arnold's overdone machoism. Because it is so close in construction to " lady-boy ' and " she-male" , I am surprised at the term's survival : while I have nothing but the greatest admiration for the trans-gendered in our society, this is not exactly mainstream American or Canadian.

I also greatly dislike the terms, which have become relatively common around here, " sack up " and " getting your panties in a knot ". Seems to be too many kids trying to act grown-up rather than being real. Bit too fey to be manly.

As to ascribing a whole generation as not living up to the standards of men of the past, who sacrificed themselves for their countries, always followed the dictum of women and children first, cried only in secret and then only when their mothers died, and who faced adversity and pain with grin and grit, since they never actually existed, the assumptions underlying any such criticism are false. Descriptions of the past are based on the recollections of the people who lived that past and who have a vested interest in translating their roles to reflect what they would have liked to have been rather than what they really are. There is more mythology associated with recent history rather than ancient history. Anyone who labels an entire generation, whether a previous generation or the present, as not living up to the dubious standards which existed in times gone by is a liar and/or a fool.

Live in today's world.

[midtown]

This thread has turned me gay.

Glad to hear you're happy.

[Bezzen]

The 1950's is the new 2012, get with it!

[FTHurley]

In my generation, we tended to use a great many terms and insults, racial, sexual, and crude, without worrying in the least about whether the term used was more offensive through definition than it was through intended usage. Younger people seem to be more conscious of the words which they use, which simply makes them more devious than more sensitive, in my view.

To get very specific for a moment, I find the specific term " girly man " to be cringingly unpleasant, reflecting more on the user than on the person being addressed by the words. While I know the history of the term within American politics, I will always associate it with SNL and the satire of Arnold's overdone machoism. Because it is so close in construction to " lady-boy ' and " she-male" , I am surprised at the term's survival : while I have nothing but the greatest admiration for the trans-gendered in our society, this is not exactly mainstream American or Canadian.

I also greatly dislike the terms, which have become relatively common around here, " sack up " and " getting your panties in a knot ". Seems to be too many kids trying to act grown-up rather than being real. Bit too fey to be manly.

As to ascribing a whole generation as not living up to the standards of men of the past, who sacrificed themselves for their countries, always followed the dictum of women and children first, cried only in secret and then only when their mothers died, and who faced adversity and pain with grin and grit, since they never actually existed, the assumptions underlying any such criticism are false. Descriptions of the past are based on the recollections of the people who lived that past and who have a vested interest in translating their roles to reflect what they would have liked to have been rather than what they really are. There is more mythology associated with recent history rather than ancient history. Anyone who labels an entire generation, whether a previous generation or the present, as not living up to the dubious standards which existed in times gone by is a liar and/or a fool.

Live in today's world.

Thank you. That's a very nice summary of exactly how I was feeling when I started the thread.

I certainly am not trying to be the language police here. For example, I didn't report the post that triggered the discussion. I just thought it was an interesting question about community standards, and I was curious what others thought. I appreciate your comments.

[BigWheelHawaii]

This thread has turned me gay.

Not a Chance,,, Macho Man Doc Austin,,,

I Have Watched You Fly,,,

You Splash Around More Testosterone,,, Than,,,

Let's Say,,,

The Whole 7th Fleet, Blows Off While on Shore Leave,,,
in Downtown Bangkok,,,

Big

PS: Boys and Girls,,, This Guy Can Fly,,,

Macho Man Doc Austin,,, A Nation Number,,, No Less,,,

When He Takes the Controls,,, It Makes Randy Savage,,,
Look Like a Gurly Man,,, Dress'd in a Tutu...

He's a Great Talent,,,

[FTHurley]

Doc's a pilot? What do you fly, Doc?

Notice I didn't say, "What's up, Doc?" I think I deserve some credit for that ...

[Doc Austin]

Doc's a pilot? What do you fly, Doc?

Thanks for asking......

[comfortably numb]

Doc's a pilot? What do you fly, Doc?

Notice I didn't say, "What's up, Doc?" I think I deserve some credit for that ...

Man, where have you been???

[Doc Austin]

[B]Not a Chance,,, Macho Man Doc Austin,,,

Thanks, and Aloha, BigWheel. You been flying anything lately?