The ICONIC committee's goal was to come up with a new car/concept/whatever. They weren't the ones that were to execute whatever was decided on by the ICONIC panel.
The ICONIC committee did their job. What failed was the execution. Blame that on the series/the leadership/team owners. To say that ICONIC failed when they had nothing to do with the failed EXECUTION is poor logic, IMO.
The main task of General Looney and his ICONIC gang was to review the proposals submitted and select a manufacturer, or manufacturers, for the new car(s).Originally Posted by lyrictenor1
Remember all the hype about how there would be secret balloting among the members on the final day and no one, not even the members themselves, would know the winner until the moment the votes were counted? It didn't happen that way at all. That was quietly, and conveniently, forgotten and instead they came up with the paper dress-up doll approach of dressing a complete Dallara rolling chassis (aka the "safety cell") in different costumes. There was no secret ballot. Dallara was notified in advance of the decision and had representatives at the announcement.
Are you certain about that? If, as some have asserted, the Looney committee didn't even make the selection (as the fix was already in with Dallara) then they didn't even do the main thing they were tasked with.
Here's the rest of their assignment:
Innovative - No
Competitive - With what? It only competes against itself.
Open-Wheel - Yes and no.
New - Yes
Industry-Relevant - In what way? To which industry?
Cost-Effective - Missed the mark.
"The IRL's future should be good, but it can't be the grass-roots series Tony George envisioned. That was a wet dream." - Bobby Unser
x100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Religion can't save. Jesus can because He loves you!
I was just thinking we needed another thread about this.
Get your head out of your past!!!
Spike bringing chin music.
"It takes a special level of incompetance to make a schedule this terrible. America is possibly the greatest country in the world overall for tracks. To make a bad schedule in America takes effort. A special kind of effort. A kind of effort that only IndyCar could come up with."
As played by the ICONIC Philharmonic.
How ironic.
Last edited by Spike; 07-10-2012 at 07:06 PM.
Wow. Very mature.
To address your opinion of the last two bits of the mnemonic device:
I-- Industry Relevant: Smaller displacement, turbocharged engines; this is the direction many road car manufacturers are taking in order to satisfy ever-increasing EPA mileage requirements without sacrificing too much power
C--Cost-effective: Actually, what was chosen by ICONIC was based on what Dallara had quoted them for the price of the chassis. Because the series allowed Dallara to make a killing of spare components/accessories was the responsibility of the series.
I think we're missing the point here. What is happening now (the series deciding to not go with different aerokit manufacturers next year) is the responsibility of the series, not ICONIC. ICONIC has no responsibility policing how the manufacturer and the series deal with this situation. ICONIC finished their general task (which really was to come up with a new car for the series); let's blame the correct parties instead of making statements like "the ICONIC committee has failed," as they are not responsible for the last round of decisions. The series initially decided to do something, and then subsequently changed their mind, for whatever reason.
Hard to argue with him.
I'm not
This is the status quo for IndyCar...
I am a fan of the IZOD IndyCar Series, Formula 1, and AMA Supercross in that respective order.
Failure was letting Dallara produce a Kit in the first place. Never should have been part of package and I stated it at the time. The same arguements about component inventory doesn't change from year to year the bandaid need to be pulled quickly at the transition time.
You cannot wrangle chaos. You can only try to plan for it.
How would they have gotten the "kit"? No one else was ready to go day one.
I don't know what ICONIC/IICS are supposed to do if the owners won't pay for the stuff?
Wanker!
The car was already selected - Dallara.
It was never going to be anyone else because of the business relationship that manufacture had with IMS period.
The entire committee was window dressing.
The reality is the numbers are dropping yet you call the deal 'ahead of its time'. The only end result that can be drerived from that is the series will be broke 'ahead of its time'.
Dallara wasn't even ready to go on day one. Those original aero kits were mostly cosmetic so they could have a show car while the real kits were being developed. They went into it planning on the teams using their own kits, then had to scramble to come up with a real kit after the abysmal tests in the fall.
But, we can say Dallara did deliver a good kit (after a couple itterations). If Dallara could come up with something that quickly, Chevy and Honda could have too....and were probably on their way to delivering, but the owners pulled the plug because they didn't want to spend the money.
The "Safety Cell" idea seems like a great idea on paper...one bare bones rolling chassis...and "unlimited" aero kits. But it hasn't panned out that way in real life practice.
And there is the failure of the project, it never allowed anyone to be ready since day one. As Doctorindy said, not even Dallara was ready.
Work with your partners from the beginning. If one of them (GM lets say) want dallara to do there kit so be it but not standard.
What they should have done is published the rule and walked away. If is unaffordable then no one buys it so be it.
The problem with the ICONIC decision or any decision they could have made, until companies are throwing their money at IndyCar like they did in the days of CART, and like they still do with F1, we're never going to get exactly what we want.
The problem is not ICONIC, Randy or the Owners, it's lack of money.
No, Dallara always had the advantage of having complete access to the car (both physically and on their computers) from beginning to end. They could, and did, design bodywork, aero bits and all the attachment hardware as they designed and built the chassis.
Chevy, Honda and, presumably, Lotus didn't have that massive advantage. They were left to sit and wait for Dallara to eventually supply all the necessary physical data and for the series to provide rules that specified dimensional parameters and aero limitations. They would also need, at the very least, a complete mockup of a rolling chassis so that they could design, develop, fit and tool up their respective aero kits.
There were articles at the time wherein it was mentioned that the various would-be aero kit makers were still waiting for all of that with only months to go before the season started.
That line of thinking is as flawed as the whole aero kit concept.
Suppose they had done as you suggest (only allowed aero kits to be produced by makers other than Dallara) and only two of the three engine companies stepped up to produce kits. Where would that have left the teams running the third engine? After all, under the rules, you won't see a Chevy powered car running Honda's aero kit.
No, the greater problem is a lack of clear thinking. As I said back when it was announced - and all along since then - the whole aero kit idea was ill-conceived and not properly thought through before it was announced. There are numerous flaws in the concept and the rules governing it - not the least of it being that there is little incentive to produce, sell or use the kits - and that's why it has all turned out so badly.
I agree, ICONIC delivered a decision on a car as promised, nothing more. It hasn't panned out as originally planned because no one will let it pan out. When I deccided it was time for a new car last fall, I originally intended to buy a new Audi wagon over the winter. It was evident fuel prices were about to rise again and a new round of salary freezes changed the situation. I bought a VW TDI instead. Economic realities and common sense dictated I changed what I bought. In the end, it's not the sexy a$$ S6 wagon I promised myself, but I bought a car I am extremely happy with. i can always lower it, change the wheels and tires, and make it even more to my liking later. Did I fail?
The appearance of the Dallara has grown one me, especially the superspeedway oval package, and I have zero complaint about the quality of the racing the car is producing.
What else can you all ***** about?
Eliminate all the mandates. They seldom work in government, and IMHO they don't work in racing. They have the dallara pieces now, allow teams to do what they want and can afford. If they can't afford a change, they won't, plain and simple.
I would think component inventory increases every year, making the argument stronger.
Those are some pretty heavy allegations. How about some sources to back up your assertions?
All that we really know about how far in advance that they were notified is that it was enough to modify their renderings to show how the kits would work, for the presentation. Of course, even though my memory is foggy it sure seems like a lot of other details had been worked out (Indiana facility, tax breaks on first purchase, etc.).
How does this make sense for the manufacturers who sink $$$$ into developing the kits? It sure is a nice way to ensure that IndyCar loses business partners. Let's face it: Economic times are very different from what CART thrived under during the 90's. Indycar needs to make itself financially sustainable again--it doesn't do that by leaving business partners out to dry. Anybody recall how we ended up with a spec engine for the last several years of the IRL? People b**ch about not having enough manufacturers, but by not building a relationship with the manufacturers (and guarantee that they will get some business from the teams so that they can showcase their products) the series will ultimately end up with a single engine supplier once again.
+1
I think fans forget the realities with which the people spending the $$ must deal.
I'd say he's closer to the mark than you want to believe
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security
Because is was all BS. the cost was limited and the owner will spend the money needed to be fastest. This save us from ourself is a poor excuse to have a spec series
Post of the century.
If the problem was lack of money then there is only one way to go: open the rules and see who brings what. It's incredibly simple and it ensures that interest remains in the cars on the track.
The other thing is that ICONIC should have chosen 3 manufacturers and again, see what they bring.
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