The Bottom Line To Any Success is IndyCar's Bottom Line

[RyanK3206]

I kind of hard to believe that most of us (including myself) would be discussing which schedule, new and returned tracks, and if any "triple crown" would increase raceday attendance, TV viewership, and overall popularity to causal viewers but I think we all are forgetting the root problem at hand. Advertising is generally non-existent,

my friend (Not a racing fan) the other day referred to Will Power in the Verizon ad as "that Australian race car driver guy" but knows exactly who Jimmie Johnson is. (& no, Dario isn't known as Ashley Judd's husband.)

I don't blame IndyCar for this, it really isn't a surprise I'm blaming ABC for this but it isn't just because of their extremely sub-par coverage but also because of their lack of interest in advertising any of their coverage that isn't the Indy 500. The NBC Sports Network excellently advertises their coverage and has good coverage but the problem is their not network TV so their general viewership is pretty low in comparison.

It's difficult to choose between the broadcaster with bad advertising, bad coverage, and an excellent general audience and the one with the opposite and it only makes it even more difficult with a split deal where a newly-interested audience can't be exposed more if they don't have NBCSN.

For comparison, Australia's V8 Supercar Series has a network broadcast for all their races (NASCAR doesn't in the US) worth about $124 million. All races on network TV should be a goal for IndyCar but pride stands in the way, V8 Supercars increases their exposure with the Albert Park Race, a non-Championship F1 support race, and supported F1 in Abu Dhabi but IndyCar would never play a number 2 to F1 even though hopefully in North America there will be 3 F1 Grands Prix.

F1 is the World Championship and IndyCar is our National Championship and has been since 1916 (won by a Dario from Britain), It should be more like a National Championship not a wannabe World Championship.

By the way, the V8 Supercar Series is Australia's National Touring Car Championship and they got Austin until 2022, we could learn a bit from them. Racing is a business and sometime business should come before pride. Someone has to tell ABC's they're not just "the home of the Indianapolis 500" or IndyCar needs a split with ABC.

[Hitokiri]

my friend (Not a racing fan) the other day referred to Will Power in the Verizon ad as "that Australian race car driver guy" but knows exactly who Jimmie Johnson is. (& no, Dario isn't known as Ashley Judd's husband.)

This is the key to what you've said but unfortunately you've missed your own point.

You're saying that Indycar should work as a support series to F1.

1. Why would F1 allow this? It's been known since the 90's that Bernie is no fan of Indycar.

2. F1 is an intentionally known motorsport while Indycar is mostly known only in North America. F1 is love and adored in Australia but no one gives a crap for it in the United States. It's true there are going to be multiple races in the United States in the future but it's been tried before and failed. If F1 couldn't survive supporting one race how could they think two makes any sense? Plus I think growing Indycar domestically is 100 times more important then trying to grow it internationally.

Now going back to your quote, your logic would probably work best if Indycar would play a support role to NASCAR. Then again the same issues remain - would NASCAR allow it? Probably not.

So I can see the logic in your idea but either way I don't think it'll work. Plus, do we really want Indycar to admit that it's second class to NASCAR (though everything else would probably suggest that already).

[RyanK3206]

This is the key to what you've said but unfortunately you've missed your own point.

You're saying that Indycar should work as a support series to F1.

1. Why would F1 allow this? It's been known since the 90's that Bernie is no fan of Indycar.

2. F1 is an intentionally known motorsport while Indycar is mostly known only in North America. F1 is love and adored in Australia but no one gives a crap for it in the United States. It's true there are going to be multiple races in the United States in the future but it's been tried before and failed. If F1 couldn't survive supporting one race how could they think two makes any sense? Plus I think growing Indycar domestically is 100 times more important then trying to grow it internationally.

Now going back to your quote, your logic would probably work best if Indycar would play a support role to NASCAR. Then again the same issues remain - would NASCAR allow it? Probably not.

So I can see the logic in your idea but either way I don't think it'll work. Plus, do we really want Indycar to admit that it's second class to NASCAR (though everything else would probably suggest that already).

I really don't want to admit it but painfully NASCAR is ahead popularity-wise in the US general public. I'm trying to prove that if IndyCar isn't willing to be #2, they really shouldn't let the "tradition" of ABC broadcasting the Indy 500 let ABC treat IndyCar like #2, (even thought Indy-F1 relations are horrible, I'd support IndyCar supporting F1 in North America, ONLY North America) and V8's in Austin isn't a F1 support race.

[Hitokiri]

I really don't want to admit it but painfully NASCAR is ahead popularity-wise in the US general public. I'm trying to prove that if IndyCar isn't willing to be #2, they really shouldn't let the "tradition" of ABC broadcasting the Indy 500 let ABC treat IndyCar like #2, (even thought Indy-F1 relations are horrible, I'd support IndyCar supporting F1 in North America, ONLY North America) and V8's in Austin isn't a F1 support race.

I agree and I think most of us on TF would agree also. Why Bernard decided to resign with ABC is over my head but I bet you it has something to do with the fact that ABC was willing to fork up big bucks to get Indycar again. Probably even larger then what NBC was willing to thus why they split the deal instead of giving it NBC in totality. I think Indycar can do little when it comes how ABC represents its sport since ABC is paying for the rights to show it and even ESPN (which is owned by ABC) is in love with NASCAR unfortunately.

This probably sounds like a broken record but hopefully NBC and Indycar well hook up totally and NBC well put as much effort to promote the series as it does on NBC Sport Network. As I said, even if Indycar wanted to play second fiddle to NASCAR or F1 I doubt it would be allowed and that's on F1 and NASCAR's part.

[houstonracefan]

This is the key to what you've said but unfortunately you've missed your own point.

You're saying that Indycar should work as a support series to F1.

1. Why would F1 allow this? It's been known since the 90's that Bernie is no fan of Indycar.

2. F1 is an intentionally known motorsport while Indycar is mostly known only in North America. F1 is love and adored in Australia but no one gives a crap for it in the United States. It's true there are going to be multiple races in the United States in the future but it's been tried before and failed. If F1 couldn't survive supporting one race how could they think two makes any sense? Plus I think growing Indycar domestically is 100 times more important then trying to grow it internationally.

Now going back to your quote, your logic would probably work best if Indycar would play a support role to NASCAR. Then again the same issues remain - would NASCAR allow it? Probably not.

So I can see the logic in your idea but either way I don't think it'll work. Plus, do we really want Indycar to admit that it's second class to NASCAR (though everything else would probably suggest that already).

when most of our fans are outside of the USA, focusing on the USA is a strategy doomed to fail.

[Hitokiri]

when most of our fans are outside of the USA, focusing on the USA is a strategy doomed to fail.

Sure. That's why most of the people watching the series are North Americans and why nearly endevor to go overseas never had lasted long besides Australia and Motegi.

[houstonracefan]

Sure. That's why most of the people watching the series are North Americans and why nearly endevor to go overseas never had lasted long besides Australia and Motegi.

then why ar3 far more people watching in Brazil than North America? The ratings have been posted in many threads, especially in the biz forum. 13 million watched the Brazil race in Brazil. isn't that more than watched Indy here?

The series will NEVER be successful as long as we bury our heads in the sand and think 95% of our fans are in north America

[goldie19]

when most of our fans are outside of the USA, focusing on the USA is a strategy doomed to fail.

Most of our fans are outside the US? Really? Link?

[TCar]

then why ar3 far more people watching in Brazil than North America? The ratings have been posted in many threads, especially in the biz forum. 13 million watched the Brazil race in Brazil. isn't that more than watched Indy here?

The series will NEVER be successful as long as we bury our heads in the sand and think 95% of our fans are in north America

Brazil is an exception..now Im willing to bet if you dig further, your going to see that every other race outside of NA, 2-3 years in, if they made it that far, started falling off and never produced the numbers the first year or 2.
Gold Coast was the other exception. But that was attendance not tv viewership.
Fix the problems here, build the base here, then worry about overseas races.
Been an issue for years and is still an issue today.

[houstonracefan]

Most of our fans are outside the US? Really? Link?

This was a link from 2 years ago http://m.si.com/news/2442636 Ratings were higher in Brazil than the USA then. Other links this year have showed about a 40% increase in Brazilian ratings (due to Reubens)

Why not have a few more races there where there actually is more interest, instead of force feeding midwest races?

[houstonracefan]

Brazil is an exception..now Im willing to bet if you dig further, your going to see that every other race outside of NA, 2-3 years in, if they made it that far, started falling off and never produced the numbers the first year or 2.
Gold Coast was the other exception. But that was attendance not tv viewership.
Fix the problems here, build the base here, then worry about overseas races.
Been an issue for years and is still an issue today.

how long do we give to fix things here? We keep it up, we won't have a series!

Why not have a second Brazil race? Return to Australia and Motegi (2 successful flyaway races). Try something in the Caribbean. Get the large sanctioning fees. And don't do the gomerific thing and use those profits to subsidize ovals. That won't help the series one bit (just a vocal minority's oval fix). Instead, use the high sanctioning fees to increase the prize fund for the series champion, which will allow us to better attract the best talent.

[Disciple]

Who is force feeding midwest races? They are all dropping off the schedule. Chicagoland, Kentucky, Kansas, Nashville...all gone.

-The Still Likes Memphis As An Opportunity Disciple of INDYCAR

[houstonracefan]

http://www.indycar.com/en/News/2012/...ase-in-ratings

Here is the link from IndyCar with the ratings from Brazil. Even Indy doesn't attract 10% of the US audience, but a routine IndyCar race in Brazil does there

No way at all one can argue most of IndyCar's fans are in the USA... at least not if they are honest

[Fro]

Brazil has a stronger TV package than the US and a lot fewer channels for people to choose from.

Obviously Rubens in Brazil probably has the same impact as Tony Stewart would on the TV ratings in Indiana if he came back to IndyCar, except across the whole country.

[houstonracefan]

Brazil has a stronger TV package than the US and a lot fewer channels for people to choose from.

Obviously Rubens in Brazil probably has the same impact as Tony Stewart would on the TV ratings in Indiana if he came back to IndyCar, except across the whole country.

The shouldn't we be racing more there (at least 1 additional race)?

I'm excited for the Houston GP next year. However, there are more fans in Brazil than Houston. Lets race where our fans actually are as I want this series to thrive

[TCar]

how long do we give to fix things here? We keep it up, we won't have a series!

Why not have a second Brazil race? Return to Australia and Motegi (2 successful flyaway races). Try something in the Caribbean. Get the large sanctioning fees. And don't do the gomerific thing and use those profits to subsidize ovals. That won't help the series one bit (just a vocal minority's oval fix). Instead, use the high sanctioning fees to increase the prize fund for the series champion, which will allow us to better attract the best talent.

Fundamental problems are at hand now. Who is going to foot the bill for all this additional travel for a maybe?
Face it, the series right now is no better off than when bernard came to power. Izod is gone after this season. Not confirmed yet but dont be surprised when its announced.
Attendance and ratings here are down. Why is that?
1. The group in charge currently is not doing a good job selling the series to fans and sponsors.
2. The schedule has no continuity from year to year.
3. bernards one and done mantra.."if it doesnt sell out year one, we arent going back.
4. A new car with spares thats costing more.
His 'survey' led him to beleive the 20 somethnigs of the world is the way to go. Seemingly to hell with every long term fan. You know, the ones that actually cared and stuck around for more than a few years?? The same ones the supported races because they knew when said races were going to be from year to year. The ones that attended multiple races. No, we dont need them anymore, they are the past.
We'll dismiss half the fanbase, then dont market and promote the series to anyone new and people wonder why theres no gain. Its no ones job but their own and they fail miserably at it.
The owners are pissed to the point that theres a revolt against bernard brewing and you suggest that they should go to the carribean to a race, where theres no track, no deal and no one to pick up the air freight because you think its 'cool"??
You mention F1. IMO better get your fill quick, because this is the what venue those cars are at now?? But this time its going to work?? Last count, F1 has been at ,LB, Vegas, Detroit, The Glen and Indy. It didnt work at IMS but its going to be successful at Houston?? lol
See where Im going?
If theres a call for a second brazil race, dont you think, even tho these guys arent to bright, that if it was feasable , they would already have a second date ??
It makes no difference where this series goes, without a change of 'leadership" theres not going to be any gain.
Last count, before the numbers kinda started getting hard to find ( I wonder why) 2 of 5 races had bumps in attendance, margin ones at that.
TV numbers were off except for barber. Im talking here in this country.
Maybe, people or fans, dont care about some street race in another country. Maybe they have no clue they are even racing that weekend.
bernards group, who have proven they cannot self promote, havent done anything any better than the group before. They got a new car, that half of the remaining fans cannot relate to as being an open wheeled car.
Large sanctioning fees?? Isnt that whats bit them in the fanny a couple times this year already?? Wasnt that the end of the so called, plan b?? There never was a plan b, just smoke and mirrors and a frenzy to sign one more race . Last time I checked, if theres no name on the dotted line of a contract to hold a race, thats not a confirmed race.
bernards gaffes have grown tiresome and they are losing fans now today. If you think that going to brazil, carribean or the moon is going to change that, i got some swampland if FLA Id like to sell you.

[RyanK3206]

You mention F1. IMO better get your fill quick, because this is the what venue those cars are at now?? But this time its going to work?? Last count, F1 has been at ,LB, Vegas, Detroit, The Glen and Indy. It didnt work at IMS but its going to be successful at Houston?? lol

I mentioned F1 in North America & of course you would bring up the various US Grands Prix that were unsuccessful for various reasons but the Grand Prix du Canada has been a staple of the F1 calendar except for a recent season it was cut from the schedule but brought back through sheer fan backlash. Also, you mention Brazil, F1 is more popular than IndyCar because of their drivers some of which who do come to IndyCar after F1 and another F1 staple, the Brazilian Grand Prix. Just because F1 isn't stable here doesn't mean it isn't in other large IndyCar regions

[lkchris]

I don't blame IndyCar for this, it really isn't a surprise I'm blaming ABC for this but it isn't just because of their extremely sub-par coverage but also because of their lack of interest in advertising any of their coverage that isn't the Indy 500.

You're a long way from understanding the "bottom line."

ANYTHING ABC or any TV network does is done SOLELY when they are paid to do it by advertisers.

In case you don't get it, any advertising for upcoming shows is paid for by advertisers, not networks.

Advertisers pay networks when they think it will benefit them and clearly advertisers see little viewership for Indycar.

I rather think it's because some really dense team owners think Americans will watch EJ Viso, etc. Sorry race teams, but when your funding is your driver your team isn't going to have any fans and when there are so many teams with no fans there isn't going to be much coverage.

As for interesting racing and interesting cars, Indycar isn't even at the top of the list of racing series needing more fans.

[SoundMan360]

Sure. That's why most of the people watching the series are North Americans and why nearly endevor to go overseas never had lasted long besides Australia and Motegi.

I'm interested in why you think you know this to be the case.

I don't believe it is.

[SoundMan360]

You're a long way from understanding the "bottom line."

ANYTHING ABC or any TV network does is done SOLELY when they are paid to do it by advertisers.

In case you don't get it, any advertising for upcoming shows is paid for by advertisers, not networks.

Advertisers pay networks when they think it will benefit them and clearly advertisers see little viewership for Indycar.

I rather think it's because some really dense team owners think Americans will watch EJ Viso, etc. Sorry race teams, but when your funding is your driver your team isn't going to have any fans and when there are so many teams with no fans there isn't going to be much coverage.

As for interesting racing and interesting cars, Indycar isn't even at the top of the list of racing series needing more fans.

who could they put in Viso's ride (that would take it), that American viewers will tune in for?

[use2know]

...ANYTHING ABC or any TV network does is done SOLELY when they are paid to do it by advertisers.

In case you don't get it, any advertising for upcoming shows is paid for by advertisers, not networks.

???... Not sure what you mean by this.

I just happen to be looking at a Network prime-time lineup from last evening that includes 26 total in-show promos and N.I.'s (7m30s), all for upcoming programming... none-of-which is paid for by any advertiser.

[Indyknut]

You're a long way from understanding the "bottom line."

ANYTHING ABC or any TV network does is done SOLELY when they are paid to do it by advertisers.

In case you don't get it, any advertising for upcoming shows is paid for by advertisers, not networks.

Advertisers pay networks when they think it will benefit them and clearly advertisers see little viewership for Indycar.

I rather think it's because some really dense team owners think Americans will watch EJ Viso, etc. Sorry race teams, but when your funding is your driver your team isn't going to have any fans and when there are so many teams with no fans there isn't going to be much coverage.

As for interesting racing and interesting cars, Indycar isn't even at the top of the list of racing series needing more fans.

Yes. Because Television networks don't care if you watch the shows they televise or not.

I've seen some stupid, uninformed stuff posted on these boards and yours is right up there.