All of the shots are still here. I'm adding to them, not changing them. The recent two were pics where I cropped out the distractions to show only the stands and people.Originally Posted by cpthornman
I think it's more than obvious that this place is not 1/2 full. 20% seems more and more like a stretch, the more closely I look at the stands.
Oh gee...a different photo taken at a different time and a different section. I told you I'm done with this estimation crap. You're trying to base an entire attendance off of photos taken at different times and places. The ONLY thing that we can go off are the numbers.
It is a fact that the crowds at Texas have decreased. I believe this is primarily due to the strained relationship between the current makeup and leadership of IndyCar and TMS, mostly Eddie Gossage. If they want the kinds of crowds they used to draw that relationship must be mended.
-The Olive Branch Waving Disciple of INDYCAR.
You would rather I show you pictures of different sections taken at precisely the same time?
That seems tricky.
You're welcome to believe 6,000,000 people were there if you choose. Heck, they might as well announce that as the attendance next year, some will believe it.
My point exactly. If you're going to be scientific about this then you need to be scientific in your method.
Wonder how many people were in the suites at Texas? You know, the part of attendance that no picture of the stands can show you?
Just askin'.
Some posters are honest ... Some not so much
We all know who's who and which is which
Aren't those DSOTM lyrics?
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
There is no way to sugar coat only 200,000 viewers but somehow you keep trying.
The i get when the ratings are bad without sugar coating or making up a story Iam Tellin
You can't be serious. You are wanting to place blame for decreasing attendance on a "relationship"? Absurd.
He's completely serious... That's what's so scary about it
No more than the 12,000 capacity.Wonder how many people were in the suites at Texas? You know, the part of attendance that no picture of the stands can show you?
Just askin'.
Based on the stands, would it be your guess the really, really pricey stuff was sold out?
And can I get your opinion on what the crowd was like?
Sure, compared to previous years it was down significantly.
As to how many was there, the track announced its number. Apparently that's how many people paid to see it, whether they actually did or not. Life's too short to agonize over it. That's Eddie Gossage's job, not mine.
Any luck, those that were there and saw a much better race than prior years will spread the word it's worth coming back to... if it comes back.
Yep. Those humble beginning. In Long Island, NY
Don't forget Chicago
The reality is the numbers are dropping yet you call the deal 'ahead of its time'. The only end result that can be drerived from that is the series will be broke 'ahead of its time'.
Yes and F1 is beating American OW racing on the tele here - who would have thunk it.
But they have lots of Americans and that Mexican Maldanado
Izod is leaving the series because the ratings are too "Normal"
Wait...you copied my entire meaty text then dismissed it with a comment like that? Isn't the Internet wonderful? LOLThere is no way to sugar coat only 200,000 viewers but somehow you keep trying.The i get when the ratings are bad without sugar coating or making up a story Iam Tellin
-The Ignorance Really Is Bliss Disciple of INDYCAR
No we shouldn't - it's normal in the world of racing choices.
Factually incorrect again. IZOD has indicated they are not leaving. Changes in their executive management staff and subsequent discussion of direction shifts occurred on their own, have exactly zero to do with IndyCar ratings and everything to do with the executive level changes.
-The Persistent Little Bunch Disciple of INDYCAR
When one insists on naming oneself, it's hard to imagine one's posts are informative, IMO.
Plus "meaty" implies factual. Not the case.
For successful events to plummet in attendance is normal?
Summary of facts:
-Many Internet forum contributors whose understanding of the business of television advertising commerce extends no further than tweeted 12+ overnight estimates consistently base their obsessive doom and gloom prophecy on such tweets.
-In the actual commerce of television advertising 12+ overnights mean little to nothing and are not used to sell spots.
-In order to have intelligent discussion of ratings, we need someone who has purchased the research to provide it for public discourse. Thus far, no one has.
-Any intelligent discussion will include several key areas never covered in tweet-based panic attacks. Items like price types, ratecards, demo sets, impressions, GRPs, CPMs, VPVHs, etc. Not tweeted overnight estimates.
-Agreement that ratings in general must rise to levels higher than today's norm.
-The Pencil Behind My Ear Disciple of INDYCAR
Wouldn't it be a violation of one's contract to publicize said purchased data?
All one need to understand about the ratings and attendance, generally, is that they suck, and focusing on them as is being done here in this thread is akin to what W.Edwards Deming called "management by quota" and one of the Deadly Sins of improvement efforts.
Lets say I run a call center and I send out surveys but they are always horrible.
Obviously I make changes to hope to improve my survey scores. But they still remain poor.
What you are basically saying is that I should just ignore those surveys at this point because they serve no purpose when it comes to improving my customer service?
You need to answer this.
Sorry, don't believe the late 90s crowds were ever 128,000....but they were in the 90K range.We should all be asking ourselves why crowds of 128,000 showed up twice yearly to Texas in the late 1990's in the midst of the AOW war
new sig pending
No, I'm saying unless the numbers triple or quadruple, they are still bad, and that we need to focus on the things that cause the numbers to change, not the numbers themselves.
Arguing over minute differences or changes in the numbers that are within the same standard of deviation is destructive to positive change. Just because a rating goes from .2 to .4 to .6 doesn't really mean anything good has happened. That's just within the random results of the same process.
Focus on the processes. What change to the system might encourage more viewers? What will attract new ones? What will keep them coming back?
The answers are probably tied to the same things you appreciate about the sport.
What are they?
When your Betty Crocker-like spouse sends you after baking powder, you'd probably do well not to return with Arm and Hammer, since they make baking soda, not baking powder.
That does seems to be case. I can certainly see that upon first glance it might seem that way, lots or people. But the trend of exagerrated TMS crowds has apparently existed for a while.
That's nonsense. A ratings double would certainly be significant. It would affirm that something was done that impacted them, meaning a likely further improvement. We're in such a ratings ditch right now that once momentum gets going it should leap for a while.
The reality tho is that each season has 2-3 races that just don't exist as far as its viewing audience size is concerned. This is one of them.
It's a bit weird (and bad) that it was on a Cupless weekend, IMO. Tho the NW race did coincide with most of it, and the NW race benefitted from The Open. And as I mentioned, it was over so quickly that the late race joiners that typically boost the ratings at the end of the race missed out.
We've really got a problem with the ratings, and at this point the only thing I can think of is to just let it continue until IndyCar dies off. It's quite obvious that motorsports have taken a back seat to a number of sports in the United States (for example, football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, etc...). ESPN goes out of its way to ignore the series because it has the bigger NASCAR series to promote. NBC won't promote IndyCar unless it's on its Sports Network. For television, I just don't see the ratings increasing at all.
As for TMS, it's wishful thinking by some for 20k. I was at the Ballpark this week and saw a ton of empty seats for the Boston game (Left field in the top two sections was empty; the top was empty until third base). 44,981 were at the game. You don't see all the people at the concessions, nor do you see the people watching from seats that are not their own, nor do you see the people who are in the suites, or the entry ways, or in the infield. If it really was 20k, do you think Gossage would allow IndyCar to come back?
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