Maybe it's the tracks?

[ACCP]

So major league oval racing, both Indy and NASCAR, has seen a downturn in the last couple of years. And everyone's blaming the promotion, on track action, etc., but I think it's much simpler than that: going to a big time speedway is a miserable experience, the racing itself excepted.

Over my vacation a few weeks back I had the opportunity to go Gillette Stadium for a Revolution game, followed by NHMS for both Nationwide and Cup a week later. The difference is night and day. One is comfortable, clean, had decent bathrooms, and you didn't have a heart attack trying to get to the top. The other you bake on aluminum, the porta-potties are actually cleaner than the proper bathrooms, your dad almost collapses trying to get to his seat, and you dodge water, beer, and any other unknown fluid raining under the stands trying to get out. Guess which is which?

It's gotten embarrassing to take my girlfriend to the track. I'm okay with things because I'm used to it, and it doesn't kill me. But she's been insight into what a newbie race fan would think, and now I don't see why anyone would think that this type of stuff is acceptable or that they would want to come back for another race.

I understand that it's tough to financially justify bringing a Gillette-type experience to a speedway for only 2 shows a year (when the Stadium has over 30), but something needs to improve there. Some plumbers? People to clean the bathroom? Better hygiene standards at concessions? Some way of preventing beer showers leaving the track? Something? I don't think it's exclusive to NHMS either, but maybe people have had better experiences at other tracks. But new fans are going to go to a major league race expecting major league facilities...and right now, they just aren't, both in terms of construction and operation.

[Z28]

You are entitled to your opinion. I have found most big speedways acceptable as sports facilities. You can find some outdated and under performing spots any place. Some of the worst, that I do my best to avoid, are right under the first turn stands at the famed Indianapolis Motor Speedway. They may have added walls and doors to the stalls in the bathrooms but otherwise they no doubt date back to the Wilbur Shaw era.

If you find other sports arenas that all you to bring in coolers with your own food and drink, so you can avoid paying the profit making concessions please list some.

[DavidM]

I bet you would have had a better time if you would have went a day earlier to the Modified race.

[Z28]

I read Curt Cavin's Q&A with Danica Patrick and here's the question that applies to this subject

Q: Surely you're making more money selling NASCAR merchandise.

Patrick: "Well, the first thing is there are twice as many races; that's a big difference. Yes, the merchandising (revenue) is more, but we're also racing at ovals. Ovals were always a big seller in IndyCar as opposed to the road courses. There's a very hard-core oval audience whether it's NASCAR or IndyCar."

Let's hear those who tout the rc/sc attendance edge explain how with fewer people attending oval track races the top merchandise seller did more business at ovals that rc's? It's because the latter underlined part, the hard core oval audience is made up of more fans than the there for the camping rc fans and party goers at sc's.

[KevMcNJ]

Ive never been to NHIS so I really cannot comment on them

But in the past 3-4 years Ive been to Indy, Daytona, Atlanta, Bristol, Chalrotte, Darlington & Talladega.

Theyve all been Satisfactory as far as I was concerned.

Functional and clean.

Maybe its just NHIS?

YMMV of course

[irloyal]

In my experience (which is fairly considerable) the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is the best kept and most creature comfortable racetrack. Next would be the SMI properties. TMS, Charlotte, AMS, LVMS, are very clean and well maintained. When Penske owned tracks, his were always in the same class as IMS, spotless and well managed.

I went to Fontana 2 years after ISC bought it and it had REALLY gone down hill. Unmown grass areas, dirty bathrooms, garbage in the parking lot. Other ISC venues I have visited include Darlington, Daytona, Talledega and all of these venues really don't meet the same cleanliness standards as IMS and the SMI properties. It's not that they are disgusting or anything, but the ISC properties are clearly not as clean and manicured as the others I have cited. Mrs Oyal pointed it out to me the first time, saying the bathrooms at Darlington were like the ones at Ascot on a bad night. She's always commented that TMS is her favorite track since it is so clean, and the people there are so friendly.

[MoparsRule]

I read Curt Cavin's Q&A with Danica Patrick and here's the question that applies to this subject

Q: Surely you're making more money selling NASCAR merchandise.

Patrick: "Well, the first thing is there are twice as many races; that's a big difference. Yes, the merchandising (revenue) is more, but we're also racing at ovals. Ovals were always a big seller in IndyCar as opposed to the road courses. There's a very hard-core oval audience whether it's NASCAR or IndyCar."

Let's hear those who tout the rc/sc attendance edge explain how with fewer people attending oval track races the top merchandise seller did more business at ovals that rc's? It's because the latter underlined part, the hard core oval audience is made up of more fans than the there for the camping rc fans and party goers at sc's.

That's an interesting comment from Danica. Good catch.

[ErixMotorsports]

More merchandise is sold at ovals because the crowds all come and go through same gates where souvenir trailers are located. Road course people are spread out more.

[THE BEAR]

I haven't been to NHIS in some number of years...really, since the Indy Cars ran there.....i gave away my NASCAR tickets which were offered to those of us who had Indy Car tickets and have not been back. Didn't go recently to see the Indy Cars.

But, when Bob Bahre owned and ran it, the (new) place was first class. It was very well done from the stands to the track to the camping to the food and concessions to the bathrooms to the way in which traffic was handled (In a VERY nice gesture, they hired one cop from each jurisdiction in NH to control traffic, and it flowed very well). Maybe things have changed...a lot...but if Bob has ANY say (and i thought the family still did to some extent regarding operations) the issues you site just wouldn't be issues.

[Richard Kimble]

That's an interesting comment from Danica. Good catch.

Yep, the former CART fans didn't want her merchandise.....

[KevMcNJ]

Mrs Oyal pointed it out to me the first time, saying the bathrooms at Darlington were like the ones at Ascot on a bad night. She's always commented that TMS is her favorite track since it is so clean, and the people there are so friendly.

My wife doesnt go to too many races with me but she will never return to a track that has nasty rest rooms.

Some short track promoters have no idea how many fans they are losing because they wont clean the rest rooms once a week.

I accept it at race tracks and maybe I shouldnt but I know where the nasty rest rooms are on my delivery routes and those places never get any business from me becasue theres enough clean places out there

[Red Byrd]

I went to Fontana 2 years after ISC bought it and it had REALLY gone down hill. Unmown grass areas, dirty bathrooms, garbage in the parking lot. Other ISC venues I have visited include Darlington, Daytona, Talledega and all of these venues really don't meet the same cleanliness standards as IMS and the SMI properties. It's not that they are disgusting or anything, but the ISC properties are clearly not as clean and manicured as the others I have cited. Mrs Oyal pointed it out to me the first time, saying the bathrooms at Darlington were like the ones at Ascot on a bad night. She's always commented that TMS is her favorite track since it is so clean, and the people there are so friendly.

Might be a Southern thing.

Southern men aren't afraid to **** in a bucket

And neither are the women

[ACCP]

My wife doesnt go to too many races with me but she will never return to a track that has nasty rest rooms.

Some short track promoters have no idea how many fans they are losing because they wont clean the rest rooms once a week.

I accept it at race tracks and maybe I shouldnt but I know where the nasty rest rooms are on my delivery routes and those places never get any business from me becasue theres enough clean places out there

Exactly my point. I have no real issues with NHMS specifically, when I go to Stafford Springs or Seekonk it's much the same deal. But, the newcomers aren't getting good impressions when hitting up the tracks for the first time. If you've never been to a track and you experience the typical speedway bathroom for the first time, I don't know why you'd ever want to go back. Improving these types of things would make for a lot more return business, and help the word-of-mouth.

[BrakeEarly]

More merchandise is sold at ovals because the crowds all come and go through same gates where souvenir trailers are located. Road course people are spread out more.

Also, because crowds at ovals are there to watch a race so they have a higher inclination to purchase racing oriented souvenirs.

Crowds at street courses in particular are heavily composed of individuals attending an event and are as likely to spend money on the fried twinkies and ancillary activities as they are to send on racing merchandise.

Remember that the upcoming Rib America festival in Indianapolis will draw more attendees than the majority of Indycar street races. You don't need a race or other primary attraction to draw people to an urban area to buy food and souvenirs. You do need race fans to sell race souvenirs.

Indycar can't race at ovals because there aren't enough race fans to fill the stands. Indycar races at street courses because there are enough people to make it work. But without the non-race fans, street courses won't work either.

[KevMcNJ]

Exactly my point. I have no real issues with NHMS specifically, when I go to Stafford Springs or Seekonk it's much the same deal. But, the newcomers aren't getting good impressions when hitting up the tracks for the first time. If you've never been to a track and you experience the typical speedway bathroom for the first time, I don't know why you'd ever want to go back. Improving these types of things would make for a lot more return business, and help the word-of-mouth.

Mrs KevMc went to the Inaugural IRL race at Richmond with me in 2001.

She never did make a return trip with me but she said she enjoyed herself and said she wanted to go back.

So I gues RIR passed the.....

[KevMcNJ]

...wait for it!!!.....

[KevMcNJ]

...Smell Test