I seem to remember something about him losing an arm (?) when the door on his plane opened just after take off. I can't find anything to substantiate this.
Regardless, he was able to steer it away from a populated area before he went in is what I read.
...---...
He apparently took off with the cabin door unsecured. It's not unusual for pilots to overreact to an open door, even though the aircraft remains flyable in most cases.
NTSB Identification: CHI88FA249.
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 40434.
Accident occurred Friday, September 30, 1988 in COLUMBUS, OH
Probable Cause Approval Date: 06/25/1990
Aircraft: PIPER PA-60-601P, registration: N14HR
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
THE AIRPLANE WAS DESTROYED WHEN IT COLLIDED WITH TERRAIN SHORTLY AFTER DEPARTURE. TWO WITNESSES TO THE ACCIDENT WHO SAW THE ACCIDENT AIRPLANE LIFT OFF FROM THE RUNWAY DESCRIBED THE FLIGHT PATH AS ERRATIC IN NATURE WITH RANDOM MOVEMENT IN ALL THREE AXIS, PITCH, ROLL AND YAW. THE WITNESSES DID NOT SEE THE ACTUAL IMPACT. EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THE UPPER HALF OF THE MAIN ENTRY CLAMSHELL DOOR WAS NOT CLOSED AT IMPACT. RADIO TRANSMISSIONS FROM THE ACCIDENT AIRPLANE WHILE IN FLIGHT SHOW A ELEVATED VOICE LEVEL INDICATIVE OF STRESS AS THE PIC ATTEMPTED TO MAINTAIN CONTROL THE AIRPLANE DURING PITCH AND ROLL EXCURSIONS. THE RADIO TRANSMISSIONS WERE UNINTELLIGIBLE. THE TWR HAD CLEARED THE ACFT TO LAND ON ANY RWY.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
AERODYNAMICALLY STALLED LIFTING SURFACE CAUSING AN UNCOMMANDED PITCH OVER AT AN ALTITUDE TOO LOW TO AFFECT A RECOVERY.
Index for Sep1988 | Index of months
Interesting registration number. No.14 Holbert Racing?
Might he have been trying to jerk the aircraft in such a manner as to close the door? Or did he just freak out? Could he have left the seat to dick with the door?
The prop on the PA60 doesn't look too far behind the door. That might sync with losing an arm if he reached up to close it and the wind caught him.
I had also read that he lost an arm when trying to close the door. I used to fly when I was younger, my Dad was a cotton farmer and had various single engine aircraft over the years. When I learned to fly back in the early 70's he had a Comanche 260 and the door was somewhat difficult to latch. I still remember him saying, if the door ever pops open during flight NEVER try to close it, land first, then close the door. Only happened to me once, but I was sure glad my Dad warned me, because it happened on take-off and I just went around, landed, and closed the door.
On a side note, I mentioned Holbert's accident to a professional pilot friend of mine and he said no way. He flew the Aerostar when he worked for Airborne Express and he says you can't reach far enough back to get your arm in the prop. He thinks the severed arm happened during the crash and that he probably lost control during takeoff while he was trying to close the door.
I had the door pop open on a Cesna 150 while on a cross country Solo Flight as a student (my God, that was a long time ago). Other than the noise and the irritation of dust and other crap flying around the cabin, the aircraft was easy to control. I was in a climb out after takeoff and I had to retrim a bit to keep it steady, but once I got a couple of thousand feet ender me, I was able to close the door and continue the flight. However, it did require a change of shorts at the next stop!!!
A good race driver, given adequate seat time, can drive any well prepared racecar on any track surface or configuration at competitive speeds. Remember, I said a GOOD race driver!!!
IIRC, the Aerostar was noted for problems with the door coming open in flight. Apparently, and I'm no expert by any means, the flight characteristics of the airframe were altered by the open door, and it became uncontrollable.
The Aerostar was a very clean airplane aerodynamically, one of the fastest twins ever built; and an open door could upset the aerodynamics very easily...it appears that it just stalled out and hit the ground.
Dan
Originally Posted by Glenn
After I looked more closely at photos he's right. I don't know why I got the impression he lost the arm during the flight.
Aviate, navigate, communicate.........
Then when under control, land the mof and THEN close the door...
I speak from experience, with a warrior of course, not a high buck, Aerostar....
ZOOOM
"Doc, just set them fingers sose I can hold the wheel"
James Hurtubise, June, 1964
You probably got that impression because that's what was written about it at the time.
Probably from yet another tall tale someone wrote here or e-mailed you about. There seems an inordinate fascination with incidents involving severed body parts, thankfully most of which are complete and utter nonsense.
The Aerostar was the product of a man named Ted Smith. I find it interesting that this one man, without the backing of a large corporate structure, was able to design and build this beautiful hot rod. Smith's career included time at Douglas Aircraft Corporation, Commander Aircraft, and Rockwell Standard Corporation. He was a lead designer on the Douglas A-26 Invader, the Aero Commander, the 1121 Jet Commander, and other well known designs. Smith was at the forefront of those producing designs for the first purpose built pressurized executive aircraft. He was extremely talented. The Ted Smith Aircraft Company was absorbed by Piper Aircraft ten years after production of the Aerostar began.
Safely flying an Aerostar should include type specific training and serious attention to detail. It is not a well known design to the average person, with just over 1,000 produced between 1968 and 1984. Compared to the quintessential small plane, the Cessna 172, it becomes apparent that the Aerostar is a very high performance aircraft. A 172 maxes out around 125 knots, the Aerostar's top speed is almost 100 knots faster.
The Aerostar has a small wing, just 178 square feet. By comparison, a Cessna 172 wing is 175 square feet. The Cessna weighs about 1,600 lbs empty, and the Aerostar weighs 4,200 lbs empty. The Aerostar has six seats, compared to the Cessna's four.
The high wing loading of the Aerostar requires higher takeoff and landing speeds, and precise piloting to safely fly the aircraft. Bobby Unser has flown an Aerostar for years, I believe he is still actively flying. His aircraft's registration number is N500BU...lots of racers have that '500' included in the tail number of their airplanes.
The Aerostar is definitely a beautiful aircraft.
Bobby Unser's 601P:
A Cessna 172 for comparison purposes:
Last edited by rrrr; 08-03-2012 at 06:26 PM.
Living a mile from the dealership there were few "details" of the tragedy other than the unclosed door caused aero problems which couldn't be overcome at takeoff.......I know little about this plane, but everyone seemed adamant that if the door was shut before takeoff history would have been far different in the Porsche US world afterward.
Katharine's Legge is in the gravel!--Jenks
__________________________________________________ ____________________
12-7-1941 Never, Never Forget 9-11-2001
Just curious. Are there any fundamental differences in the performance, stability of an airplane as regards the wing placement - top/bottom/amidship of fuselage?
"There is no substitute for victory." - General Douglas MacArthur
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The center of gravity and the center of lift pretty much need to be close to each other for stability. Now that computers control flight surfaces in recent designs, it's possible to build an aircraft that would crash if the human pilot didn't have the computer's assistance. The flight computer makes control inputs much quicker than its human counterpart.
Wing placement has tradeoffs, drag and efficiency is different for the three positions you mentioned and the designer considers these things as the design is fleshed out. The argument for best placement has been going on for a long time...Piper aircraft guys (low wing) and Cessna adherents (high wing) have been arguing for almost eighty years now....
I've flown both high wing and low wing aircraft. You typically have to put more dihedral in the wing to make a low wing airplane as stable as a high wing airplane. Both feel exactly the same to me, both very stable. However, the big argument for the high wing airplanes was visibility of the ground. Of course, you have less visibility above you which can be a pain when trying to spot other aircraft. I was always taught to turn slightly opposite of the intended turn in order to clear the area before making a turn. I've never flown a mid wing airplane. I think it looks cool, but the real reason the Aerostar is such a hot rod is what rrrrr mentioned, it has a very high wing loading and a lot of power.
I don't recall reading or hearing anything about the loss of an arm and the crash was extensively reported at the time. Was this something that came along later?
Serious Gearhead? Read ---> Mac's Motor City Garage.com
Same here. Must have come along later...but I doubt from any reliable media source.
As regards wing placement: Thanks for the info.
Heck, I'm not sure where I heard/read it. A couple of other posters here recognized it too.
The FAA won't issue a type certificate for an airplane that will crash when a cabin door opens...The Aerostar Pilot's Operating Handbook states "should the cabin door inadvertently open in flight, reduce airspeed and land as soon as possible."
The manual also warns: "Do not attempt to manually close (or hold closed) a door in flight due to the possibility of injury caused by the propeller or air loads to the door."
NTSB report:
NTSB Identification: MIA83LA111.
The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 22816.
Accident occurred Tuesday, April 05, 1983 in TAMPA, FL
Aircraft: PIPER PA-60-601P, registration: N6079R
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
THE AIRCRAFT DEPARTED RUNWAY 18L AT TAMPA INTL AIRPORT. SHORTLY AFTER TAKEOFF THE PILOT REPORTED TO THE CONTROL TOWER THAT THE MAIN CABIN DOOR WAS OPEN AND REQUESTED LANDING INSTRUCTIONS. THE PILOT STATED HE WAS HOLDING THE DOOR AND TRYING TO FLY THE AIRCRAFT WHILE ON SHORT FINAL APPROACH TO RUNWAY 27. THE PILOT LOST CONTROL OF THE AIRCRAFT AND COLLIDED WITH THE GROUND APPROX 200 FT SHORT OF RUNWAY 27. EXAMINATION OF THE LOCKING MECHANISM SHOWED NO EVIDENCE OF MALFUNCTION OR FAILURE. AIRCRAFT FLIGHT MANUAL STATES: 'SHOULD THE CABIN DOOR INADVERTENTLY OPEN IN FLIGHT, REDUCE AIRSPEED AND LAND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MANUALLY CLOSE (OR HOLD CLOSED) THE DOOR IN FLIGHT DUE TO THE POSSIBILITY OF INJURY CAUSED BY THE PROPELLER OR BY AIR LOADS ON THE DOOR.'
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
PLANNING/DECISION..INADEQUATE..PILOT IN COMMAND
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
DOOR..OPEN
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
DIVERTED ATTENTION..PILOT IN COMMAND
Contributing Factors
TERRAIN CONDITION..GROUND
Contributing Factors
EMERGENCY PROCEDURE..NOT FOLLOWED..PILOT IN COMMAND
Index for Apr1983 | Index of months
I've heard that several times too. I have never seen any actual evidence of it in any report, but I have heard it repeated as fact several times
"I think of Indianapolis every day of the year, every
hour of the day, and when I sleep, too. Everything I
ever wanted in my life, I found inside the walls of
the Indianapolis Motor Speedway."
- Eddie Sachs.
But isn't "in flight" much different that at takeoff? I'm no pilot, but sure I can see where it's not airworthy if the door opens and the thing goes dunzel, but if it effects takeoff is it under the same assumption?
The airplane should fly nicely with the door unlatched.The reason the manufacturer suggests that it is not a good idea to try to hold the door closed while flying is probably that the door would whip open and closed to a degree, making the pilot, who is trying to hand fly this high performance aircraft, unstable himself. Not usually a good thing while trying to land that bird....
ZOOOM
I was living in the Columbus area at the time...I'll nevr forget hearing about the crash on race morning....of course they were all in town for the IMSA Columbus Ford Dealers 500.
The Columbus Dispatch had an article about it the next day...I want to say it mentioned something about the door...and right away people were speculating about his arm being severed.
Incidentally, 1988 was the 4th and final Columbus 500. Not because of the accident, but because of poor management in Columbus, lack of interest (Columbus was still a "cow town" in 1988...it resisted major league sports of any sort), and an upcoming reconstruction project of the Broad St. bridge that was part of the course. Plus Jim Trueman, who created the event, was deceased. I'd image it's proximity to Mid-Ohio might have been a factor too.
It was actually a decent course...long straights, some sections were very wide, and there was a lot of passing zones. Weird pit road if you know what I mean.
I went to the Columbus 500 twice, including the year Al was killed.
I enjoyed the track and the event.
Maybe, but every civilian airplane registration in the US begins with N (November).
"Only a fool fights in a burning house."-Kang
"If you listen to fools....The Maaahhhhb Ruuuules....."-Ronnie James Dio
The problem a lot of pilots have with the door opening on an Aerostar is the fear of the door taking out a prop, which would also tend to take off an engine (or worse) with it.
And I know that fear is real...a Cessna 421C flown by a close family friend with five others on board crashed on takeoff and burned because the nose baggage compartment door wasn't secure. The aircraft will fly just fine with an open door...the pilot's reactions to the open door caused the loss of the aircraft.
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