I agree. AJ offers nothing but trouble for Indycar.Originally Posted by Captain Spyro
I agree. AJ offers nothing but trouble for Indycar.
Indy, Cleveland, Mid-Ohio, Pocono, Michigan, Long Beach, Watkins Glen, Kentucky, IRP - 49
I wish that I was in the know with what NASCAR drug tests reveal as much as a bunch of Indycar fans who hate NASCAR seem to.
Since many of you know AJ better than most, I don't find it difficult to believe he took some kind of product that contained amphetamines knowing he could be tested at any time but to think he specifically took some kind of amphetamines knowing he could be tested at any time is beyond my comprehension. There's a lapse in thinking in not knowing what was in a product and not telling NASCAR about what you took but it's a direct path to the exit to be taking drugs and very few drivers can be that stupid and still function with the team and on the track.
NASCAR has a long history of judgmental behavior, they're staunchly conservative in their politics and approach to everything so making an example out of someone just to show everyone else who is boss is SOP.
I'm very doubtful AJ can do anything to satisfy their PR department to get reinstated, whether he intentionally took drugs or not. They will not release the name of the substance he was suspended for, nor how much was in his system. How do you fight a charge that is hidden and invisible? Think about this, if he did take a supplement that contained some amphetamine how does he get counseling and treatment to show that he won't that that supplement again? Even if he knowingly did nothing wrong how does he show them he's complied withe their policies?
He gets released by Penske. I would say it's not because Penske doesn't believe what AJ told him but he knows NASCAR and he knows they could and probably will hold AJ up forever just because they can.
"You can't arrest those guys, they're folk heroes"
"They're criminals"
"Well most folk heroes started out as criminals"
That's ridiculous, why would NASCAR what to get rid of AJ.. in fact, I have friends that I worked with in ASA and they loved him. NASCAR had him in many of their promos and fan activities with Speed, he was growing in popularity and they felt he was nearing his first win. What your saying makes zero sense to me. AJ is a drug user... he got busted. Period. He is going through a breakup, personal drama, partying with the wrong people and he took drugs. He's maybe not a bad guy - but he's weak and unintelligent for thinking he would not get caught.
Produce one name that has been smeared by their testing.
Mayfield: Guilty, Long downward spiral of stolen goods, lies, bankruptcy, divorce, meth paraphernalia, he's a hardcore addict
LaJoie: Guilty, Marajuana, has been re-instated, messed up - they are fine with him now as a reporter and crew member
Hmeil: Guilty, admitted. Cocaine, Heroine, they cut him loose as they should have after a 2nd chance. A danger to all (I wish him the best now of course)
Grubb: Guilty, a downward spiral of hardcore drug use that resulted in him taking his own life a few years back
Every race I run in is in preparation for the Indianapolis 500. Indy is the most important thing in my life. It is what I live for. - Al Unser Jr.
Everything I ever wanted in my life, I found inside the walls of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. - Eddie Sachs.
There is no proof AJA was using a methamphetamine... his camp admitted to some type of amphetamine use but no one has been specific. There are some medical differences.
http://www.methamphetaminetreatment....phetamine.html
I'm not condoning the behavior but a huge crop of MLB Hall of Famers from the 60's & 70's have admitted to using "Greenies" (amphetamines). This is documented in several books like the Bronx Zoo & other baseball biographies. Allmendinger is now to be classified with all the other NASCAR/Grand Am drivers/crews busted for hardcore, illegal drugs?
Mayfield was eventually proven guilty years later... many anti doping experts has issues with NASCAR's drug procedure.Mayfield: Guilty, Long downward spiral of stolen goods, lies, bankruptcy, divorce, meth paraphernalia, he's a hardcore addict
LaJoie: Guilty, Marajuana, has been re-instated, messed up - they are fine with him now as a reporter and crew member
Hmeil: Guilty, admitted. Cocaine, Heroine, they cut him loose as they should have after a 2nd chance. A danger to all (I wish him the best now of course)
Grubb: Guilty, a downward spiral of hardcore drug use that resulted in him taking his own life a few years back
Shane Hmeil was booted by NASCAR for hardcore drugs... but what does that say about USAC & the IRL for picking him up a driver with a "lifetime" ban? Lets face it the only reason he was given a 2nd chance is that his family had connections in the motorsport biz willing to give him that chance. Most likely if he was not injured on track Shane would have never gotten a big time ride with a Fortune 500 sponsor (due to his past...)
People are raising the guilt level of AJA due to Roger Penske releasing him from his contract & IMO its misguided. Media reports tell us that the "rehab" will take AJ 4-5 months to complete (so much for those 30 day rehabs most insurance plans cover, eh...) AJ had a one year contract with Penske Racing & his season is now finished. Plenty of NASCAR free agents out there with multiple victories on their resumes & releasing AJ allows those free agents to focus on the open #22 Shell Pennzoil ride without any distractions.
Do you NEED a car this fast...? NO, but do you WANT a car this fast?? YES!!! -Tom Hnatiw
Race CARS Not DOGS!!! Adopt or foster a retired greyhound -Me
Looks that way. Where is his denial? Just an apology for the emarassment. If I had a NASCAR ride and was falsley accused of this I would be jumping up and down screaming to whoever would hear me. There would be press releases, interviews whatever I could do to proclaim my innocence. Where is all that?
What did a denial get Mayfield? Penske is well known for his corporate, "don't rock the boat" philosophy... perhaps this is the advice AJA is following? His camp did admit to his use of a low level amphetamine & not many of us are MD's here @TF. What does that mean... maybe AJA is embarrassed he was taking stuff that was deemed illegal by NASCAR & feels this is part of his punishment. His public "apology" reads like a guy who just wants to repair his image by following all the rules.
All I know is NASCAR's "drug policies" don't jive with many of the established anti-doping policies used worldwide. The organization has had a long track record of being a dictator on these drug policies... I'm old enough to remember the late Tim Richmond & NASCAR's ham-fisted approach to that.
Doesn't really surprise me about old Dinger. Both NASCAR & Penske are top notch and to screw that up, you probably really had to screwed that up, no accidental mishaps. If Aj comes to IndyCar, he gives me a driver to boo.
What does surprise me is that Ryan Newman was the third driver listed as possible replacements in the # 22 next season. I guess Paul Tracy was a on again, off again driver for Penske, but I never actually considered Newman returning. Did Newman and Penske leave on good terms?
"I love Indianapolis. I love the people. I love everything about it....the tradition, the history." - Dan Wheldon
Allmendinger wasn't being signaled out by NASCAR. He just got caught. Plain and simple. Heard Michael Schumacher say on "Top Gear" that in Formula 1 every driver is given a blood test before and after a race. I am for the stringent testing 110%. No one should be given a pass. No ONE.
In Memory of Dan Wheldon 1978-2011
I saw in an Alonso interview that F1 needs to know where every driver is 24 hours a day 365 days a year. It came up in the interview because he said he was woken up at 8:00 am by somebody from the FIA standing at his hotel room door wanting blood that morning.
Z28, there continues to be baseball players who test positive for all kinds of things, football too. Like any other cheater, they don't expect to be caught. I wouldn't mind if he came to IndyCar, but he may have to because his NASCAR career is over.
Wanker!
No naivete on my part, I've seen this movie way too many times. Athlete get's popped in a doping control. Athlete DENIES he took anything, the test is wrong. A day later, athlete comes out with another excuse. B sample comes back with the same results. Athlete comes out with yet another explanation and an admission that there were drugs in the sample, but they are "barely detectable." A couple days later, athlete comes out with yet another excuse..... blah, blah, blah. He got caught taking drugs and they weren't OTC nor were they from some stimulant. Again, if that were the case, AJ would have cleared this up long ago.
I can't argue with anything you say. Unless and until AJ comes up with the admission as to exactly what was in the sample, he's guilty as charged in my books. He knows, NASCAR knows and Roger knows. I can't see the Captain dropping hammer on him for an OTC or supplement mishap. I truly wish this was not the case. Time will tell I'm sure.
porscheman
@porscheman121 on Twitter #+200HP!
237.498/241.428/242.333 Speeds from the olden days!
Tim was one of my favorite drivers in 1985-86 along with Harry Gant and Earnhardt.
NASCAR had no choice. Tim painted them in a box, they knew he was HIV-positive (actually had full-blown AIDS by then) and in 1987 - NO ONE knew exactly what that meant. They were protecting their EMT's, fellow drivers and their image. Sure - in 2012 they look backwoods, but in 1987, nearly everyone had the same fears.
I still think of Tim, teared up watching 30for30, etc - but do not defend that man. He KNOWINGLY sentenced a woman to a lifetime of HIV positive status, he lied to NASCAR just to try to save his career.
It's sad what happened to Tim, one mistake earlier in his life with either drugs or sex - no one deserves what happened to him. But go back to 1987 and pretend you are Bill France Jr. What would you do with a driver that is a proven liar, HIV-positive and taking some sort of drug? You have no idea what it is, illegal, OTC or prescription becasue he won't release medical records to you. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
IMO the only problem Newman had with Penske was the driver of the Blue Deuce. Newman and Wallace did NOT work well as teammates and my guess is that it was an issue with Wallace, not Penske Racing as to why Newman left.What does surprise me is that Ryan Newman was the third driver listed as possible replacements in the # 22 next season...........but I never actually considered Newman returning. Did Newman and Penske leave on good terms?
guess that door could open again if there are sponsorship issues at SHR. but my gut tells me Kenseth to the 20 and Logano to the 22. Logano and his squeaky-clean image would be just what the Captain needs now for his team and sponsors.
regardless, I wish AJ the best and hope he gets his head screwed on straight and lands on his feet......somewhere.
of course it WOULD be ironic 'if' AJs positive test was due to energy drinks. what would NASCAR do? with teams sponsored by Red Bull, AMP Energy, etc.....how could they come forward and say "hey, we banned AJ for using energy drinks BUT please go out and buy them to support our race teams!".
We?Oh good.
I see we're back to this again.
"The series may be hesitant to say it, but the day is here for everybody that loves IndyCar racing to link arms and help each other out. Anybody who doesn’t want to do that needs to find something else to do with their time.”
-- Eddie Gossage, President, Texas Motor Speedway, ICONIC Advisory Committee & TrackForum member
Not a likely scenario. AJ got caught ... pure and simple. If not, he wouldn't be dummying up so much. He and his PR would be screaming from the rooftops!
porscheman
Yup, you can be sure that he didn't get pipped for having too much pop in an energy drink. If that was the case, like porchman said, he would be screaming bloody murder.
He got caught sniffing the glue, and is paying the price for a horrible (i guess) indiscretion.
Well. Certainly not me doing it.
And as I understand it I don't have the power to delete posts.
"I think of Indianapolis every day of the year, every
hour of the day, and when I sleep, too. Everything I
ever wanted in my life, I found inside the walls of
the Indianapolis Motor Speedway."
- Eddie Sachs.
Athletes & regular Joe's also occasionally prove themselves innocent. One of my ex girlfriends worked in medical research/drug testing. You would be surprised how many times false positives are generated even when doctors have a list of drugs (legal & illegal) that the test subject is taking or has admitted to taking. AJA's samples were taken @ the same time so it wasn't a surprise to me that his A & B samples were identical. Sadly the poor shlub that has to take a drug test for a job doesn't get a "do-over" test... they just don't get hired. I'm proudly drug free, yet the lazy culture of drug testing EVERYONE scares the hell out of me... especially in a country like the USA which prides itself on "freedom" & "innocent until PROVEN guilty". One test proves nothing & I've seen shocking data that show the failures in the system (especially if legal prescription drugs are part of the equations...)
How do you know what would be cleared up "a long time ago"? The complete NASCAR drug policy procedure is almost as secret as America's nuclear weapons locations. Doesn't it concern you that many anti doping experts have issues with many aspects of NASCAR's drug policy? You & I have no idea what he was busted for except an unexceptable level of an amphetamine. Due to privacy laws, no party has offered SPECIFIC details of AJ's offense(s).
Penske firing AJA was business 101... he's not good enough to be resigned for 2013 & there are a bunch of winning free agents on the market. Plus now the guy has DRUG TEST FAILURE rope around his neck so cut him loose. Dropping him also gets the fans speculating that this deal must have been "really bad"... AJ did some hardcore S**T right? Trust me if AJ had won a race or two he might have at least been retained until the end of the year.
If AJ indeed has a problem, this program should help him. If AJ didn't want to pi$$ off NASCAR he just plays the game does the rehab thing. This gets him his Grand Am license back as well & at the very least he can enter Grand Am with his bud, Mike Shank. AJA did drive the winning DP across the finish at the 2012 Rolex 24.
Don and Bill Whittington, Randy lanier, John Paul, jr. are the past nominees for this less than prestigeous award.
Sure am sorry to see this happen to AJ. I hope he can turn it all around.
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
NASCAR had no choice because they weren't bright enough to have an established drug policy in place. We're talking about the 1980s where cocaine was the hip & sexy drug. IMSA racers (sanctioned by the France family) had been arrested for smuggling marijuana (+tax evation) to finance their race teams.
Respectfully, you seem to be contradicting yourself on Tim Richmond. How did NASCAR know Tim was HIV Positive or had full blown AIDS if as you say they didn't have his medical records? Right they were relying on pitlane gossip & 3rd person accounts. Late in his NASCAR career, Richmond was probably on a variety of experimental drugs that Tim's doctors were prescribing... perhaps some leaked info to NASCAR (risking issues with their medical license & malpractice insurance...). However the same doctors had the power to ban him from his day job & they did not.
Yes, it was 1987 & even in 1991 when Magic Johnson announced he had HIV the world was pretty freaked out about AIDS/HIV... but again NASCAR aren't medical experts & as they did not have his medical records they had no proof Richmond was endangering anybody... they were acting because the Christian conservatives of Daytona Beach never really liked wild & crazy Tim Richmond & his unknown medical issues were a perfect way for them to reel him in a bit.
Please tell me how back in 1986-87 that NASCAR knew (or better yet could PROVE...) Tim Richmond was a "proven liar". To be fair Richmond did not know he had full blown AIDS when he was first started to fight with NASCAR... as you stated the medical/scientific world of 1987 was baffled by this disease. We don't know what Tim's doctors told him about continuing his career & my guess is many doctors would be more cautious about him returning to racing than carelessly advising him it was OK if indeed it wasn't (in hindsight it could have been massively dangerous to Tim & others)
Again using 1987 (& not present day 2012...) what is your proof that Tim "KNOWINGLY sentenced a woman to a lifetime of HIV positive status"???
Back then many doctors were baffled to figure out why homosexual & then heterosexual people were getting a variety of illnesses that would not go away. The sexual link was a theory when Tim infected any woman. I also watched the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary & no one could prove Tim was some kind of demon, out to infect others. I guess we see different things when we watch it...
NASCAR had no choice because they weren't bright enough to have an established drug policy in place. We're talking about the 1980s where cocaine was the hip & sexy drug. IMSA racers (sanctioned by the France family) had been arrested for smuggling marijuana (+tax evation) to finance their race teams.
Respectfully, you seem to be contradicting yourself on Tim Richmond. How did NASCAR know Tim was HIV Positive or had full blown AIDS if as you say they didn't have his medical records? Right they were relying on pitlane gossip & 3rd person accounts. Late in his NASCAR career, Richmond was probably on a variety of experimental drugs that Tim's doctors were prescribing... perhaps some leaked info to NASCAR (risking issues with their medical license & malpractice insurance...). However the same doctors had the power to ban him from his day job & they did not.
Yes, it was 1987 & even in 1991 when Magic Johnson announced he had HIV the world was pretty freaked out about AIDS/HIV... but again NASCAR aren't medical experts & as they did not have his medical records they had no proof Richmond was endangering anybody... they were acting because the Christian conservatives of Daytona Beach never really liked wild & crazy Tim Richmond & his unknown medical issues were a perfect way for them to reel him in a bit.
Please tell me how back in 1986-87 that NASCAR knew (or better yet could PROVE...) Tim Richmond was a "proven liar". To be fair Richmond did not know he had full blown AIDS when he was first started to fight with NASCAR... as you stated the medical/scientific world of 1987 was baffled by this disease. We don't know what Tim's doctors told him about continuing his career & my guess is many doctors would be more cautious about him returning to racing than carelessly advising him it was OK if indeed it wasn't (in hindsight it could have been massively dangerous to Tim & others)
Again using 1987 (& not present day 2012...) what is your proof that Tim "KNOWINGLY sentenced a woman to a lifetime of HIV positive status"???
Back then many doctors were baffled to figure out why homosexual & then heterosexual people were getting a variety of illnesses that would not go away. The sexual link was a theory when Tim infected any woman. I also watched the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary & no one could prove Tim was some kind of demon, out to infect others. I guess we see different things when we watch it...
At least one person thinks you're wrong. I won't argue with her...
Greene has AIDS, and she blames Richmond for that.
``He knowingly exposed me to the virus, and I forgive him for that, but he died in denial,'' said Greene, a 38-year-old former actress and model. ``It's so ironic. I thought he was so brave and courageous to drive a race car at 185 miles an hour, but in the end, he turned out to be a coward.''
Richmond was one of NASCAR's greatest drivers and one of its most colorful personalities, but that's not the only legacy he left when he died of AIDS 10 years ago today. He allegedly left Greene and many other women to suffer and die from the disease that killed him.
Nobody knows for sure how many women Richmond infected before he disappeared into his Deerfield Beach condo in his final stages of life. Dr. David Dodson, the infectious-disease specialist who treated Richmond said.
It is pretty hilarious that anyone thinks a guy making the kind of money AJA was making (and the money invested in him as part of a team) got the boot because of an energy drink.
Agreed. It seems to me that in a sport where appealing to mainstream sponsors is extremely important, that if Allmendinger were suspended for taking a legal substance, he would make sure everybody knew it. He could still accept the rehab program, not cheese off NASCAR, and make it clear he was using a legal substance:
"I take full responsibility for my suspension. Although the substance I took is legal, it is clearly prohibited under NASCAR's testing program, a program I fully endorse. I had the duty to not take this substance, but thanks to my error in judgment, I failed to comply. I accept NASCAR's decision, and will work hard to return to eligibility as soon a possible. . . . . ."
His silence isn't an admission, but it speaks volumes nonetheless.
Denial ain't some river in Egypt...
If AJA is as innocent as some here are delusional enough to think, he could do one of two things to clear the air...
The first would be to give an explanation of exactly what OTC/Energy Drink/Red Flag/Whatever he "mistakenly" took much like Tomas Enge has just recently done...
The other would be to sign a release with the drug testing company that would allow them to publicly release the drug test...
As yet neither has happened...all we've gotten is wishy-washy PR speak done poorly...
Heck, even Roger Penske's very, very concise statements prior to the testing of the B sample told me all I needed to know...
Ed Carpenter...2013 Indianapolis 500 Pole Winner!
Have you ever watched divorce proceedings or read legal briefs of couples fighting over custody of kids... or better yet estate fights surrounding wills? Groups of people who supposedly once loved each other or the departed say the wildest stuff. Extremes on both sides & the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle
The key word in your quotes above are allegedly. Ms Green has HIV & most likely Richmond infected her... but she is ALIVE & he's been DEAD in the ground for 2 decades! She has a right to be pi$$ed off, but she is ONE viewpoint & unless she was engaging in "group activities" with Tim, she knows nothing about other women.
Dr. David Dodson also has no proof what Richmond was doing in that Deerfield Beach condo in his final stages of life. He is speculating & gossip/here say proves zero & can't even be presented in a court of law.
I'm sure you've seen images of what AIDS patients looked like years before their deaths. Richmond was not exactly a babe magnet at that stage of his life, so how many women was he having relations with?
There is only ONE drug test... the "A" & "B samples were taken at the same time.
Tomas Enge is still going to be suspended for quite a while, so he only gained a slightly shorter penalty for all his pro active medical info. My guess is AJ has received advice that its pointless to fight NASCAR... I agree his media people have done a crappy job handling this. However its in line with how a corporate guy like Penske would advise his driver to handle it.
AJ had a one year deal with Penske Racing. His "rehab" is going to take 4-5 months, ending his season. Too many free agents with numerous wins on their resume inquiring about the #22 Shell Pennzoil ride. AJ is winless in NASCAR, so he was cut loose. Why have every possible driver interviewing for that #22 ride have to bring AJ Allmendinger's name into the conversation(s)?
Absolutely. Something like that is the way someone who used a legal substance should respond. If it really was an OTC substance that would cover it and stop further damage.
People in the industry down here were talking about AJ's behavior, and especially his speech the day he was tested would make you believe that someone saw/heard something and that MAY, emphasis on the word MAY have prompted his test.
Before someone gets ridiculous, don't ask me for names or anything that could be even construed as revealing who told me this.
I wasn't at the racetrack. I am sharing what someone who was there told me they witnessed that weekend. I don't really care if you believe me or not. I am not a NASCAR guy so I don't go chasing these people around. I do live in the middle of a ton of people who are crew, PR, even accounting type people so it is impossible to not be exposed to conversations about topics like this.
kwetcherbetchen
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