1963 Indy trivia

[jnormanh]

In which pulbication did you read that the Novi produced 838 HP?

The figure that comes closest to 838 hp I have ever read about the Novi is 837, and that was for the 1966 engine. (Peters & Greuter Novi Vol2)
Peters & Greuter list 741 hp for the 1963 engine.

Can you give us a clue where to find that 838 value?


Indyote

838 came from my defective memory. You are correct on all counts.

[Indyote]

838 came from my defective memory. You are correct on all counts.

Was just curious. 700+ hp in 1963 was impressive enough but if that engine really had 838 hp back in 1963 already...
That would have meant almost twice as much as your average Offy!

Had the Novis been more succesful, then I wonder how long the 4.2 l atmo or 2.8 l blown formula ( or 4.5 vs 3 before 1957) would have been retained. That ratio would have been changed to downsize the blown engines I think.
On paper alone and with Novi power vs Offy power, that formula looks so unfair to the Offy....


Indyote

[jnormanh]

Was just curious. 700+ hp in 1963 was impressive enough but if that engine really had 838 hp back in 1963 already...
That would have meant almost twice as much as your average Offy!

Had the Novis been more succesful, then I wonder how long the 4.2 l atmo or 2.8 l blown formula ( or 4.5 vs 3 before 1957) would have been retained. That ratio would have been changed to downsize the blown engines I think.
On paper alone and with Novi power vs Offy power, that formula looks so unfair to the Offy....


Indyote

Whichever horsepower numbers you choose to accept, the Novis were considerably more powerful that any other contemporary car. However...they were always difficult to drive, and heavy, destroyed tires, and suffered from mechanical failures. In their best years, they lapped few mph faster than the best Offys; in other years their lap speeds were not as fast as the Offys.

Bottom line is that you had a better chance of winning in a good Offy.

Of course it wasn't long until the 2.8l turbocharged Offys appeared. As built by Herb Porter and Stu Hilborn they were abt 600HP, and given a 400# weight advantage, were more than a match of the 4WD Novis. The 4-cam Fords were soon faster than the blown Offys, and front engine cars were doomed.

Granatelli said he planned to put a Novi in the Lotus flying doorstop chassis, but that never happened. How fast it might have been?....it would have been fun to see. Granatelli did install at least one unblown Hemi in a Doorstop, but I'm not aware it ever turned a lap.

Indy used to be a wonderful place full of great characters and innovation. 4, 6, 8, 12 and 16 cylinders. Huge crude engines, tiny sophisticated engines, two engines. FWD, RWD, AWD, six wheels. 4-stroke, two-stroke, diesels. And for many years, the mighty Novis.

Today it's 33 cookie-cutter cars and cookie-cutter crews and drivers.

I'll bet if I say "1939", you can instantly name the winning driver, his car make, model, color and number; his mechanic and owner and many other details. And if I say "2009"?

Blah.

[Jamski]

OK, how about citing a falsehood which Mr Granatelli himself admits is a falsehood? That he was billed as the world-famous Italian speed ace Antonio The Great?

That's show-biz, bay-bee.

I used to have a picture somewhere (till my PC crashed...Calhoun, help me out here!) of "Antonio the Great" running his "Firebug" at the Tennessee State Fairgrounds and setting a "World Speed Record".

[flatlander_48]

Granatelli said he planned to put a Novi in the Lotus flying doorstop chassis, but that never happened. How fast it might have been?....it would have been fun to see. Granatelli did install at least one unblown Hemi in a Doorstop, but I'm not aware it ever turned a lap.

I doubt if it would have worked. Although I suspect that over the years, the cars got lighter, but I doubt if the engines did. I would also suspect that the tire abuse was due to balance, as well as weight, because of the engine. Putting that engine in a Lotus might not have been something that anyone would want to drive...

[jnormanh]

That's show-biz, bay-bee.

I used to have a picture somewhere (till my PC crashed...Calhoun, help me out here!) of "Antonio the Great" running his "Firebug" at the Tennessee State Fairgrounds and setting a "World Speed Record".

Ensign14's protestations aside. Granatell did bill himself as "Antonio the Great."

http://www.tomstrongman.com/ClassicC...tCar/Index.htm

This is that car back then -

[ensign14]

I know. The point is he was not the Italian speed ace he pretended to be. He was as Italian as Leon Duray was French.

[flatlander_48]

Ensign14's protestations aside. Granatell did bill himself as "Antonio the Great."

Well, no one would bill themselves as Antonio the Mediocre would they?

[jnormanh]

Well, no one would bill themselves as Antonio the Mediocre would they?

[carl s]

Andy's hero growing up, Barney.
Both larger than life.

http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/...lli_Rocket.jpg

A friend from the Armenian Growers Community of The Central Valley told me years ago he was at a fuction held in a palatial estate and inadvertently stumbled into a private dining area where he was confronted with Andy G., Earnest Borgnine and another ethnic character actor whose name I can't reacall.
The three were dwarfed by a monstrous pile of lamb bones and a number of wine bottles. None looked up and continued their banter interspersed with primitive eating noise.

[jnormanh]

Andy's hero growing up, Barney.
Both larger than life.

http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/...lli_Rocket.jpg

A friend from the Armenian Growers Community of The Central Valley told me years ago he was at a fuction held in a palatial estate and inadvertently stumbled into a private dining area where he was confronted with Andy G., Earnest Borgnine and another ethnic character actor whose name I can't reacall.
The three were dwarfed by a monstrous pile of lamb bones and a number of wine bottles. None looked up and continued their banter interspersed with primitive eating noise.

Sounds about right. Borgnine and Granatelli had the bellies to prove it.

[JThur1]

I know. The point is he was not the Italian speed ace he pretended to be. He was as Italian as Leon Duray was French.

[jnormanh]

I know. The point is he was not the Italian speed ace he pretended to be. He was as Italian as Leon Duray was French.

So: Granatelli isn't Italian, Bobby Jindal isn't Indian, Al Capone wasn't Italian, and JFK wasn't Irish?

[ensign14]

There may have been Italian ancestry somewhere (as there was French for "Duray"), but surely they were American.

[Norman J Crump]

I'm a little confused as to why anybody trying to find a falsehood in Granatelli's book even needed to go to the trouble of opening it.

[jnormanh]

I'm a little confused as to why anybody trying to find a falsehood in Granatelli's book even needed to go to the trouble of opening it.

pedantic adjective1. hairsplitting, particular, formal, precise, fussy, picky (informal), nit-picking (informal), punctilious, priggish, pedagogic, anal retentive, overnice

[Tifositoo]

Sounds about right. Borgnine and Granatelli had the bellies to prove it.

Andy claimed in his book that his Indy accident messed up his thyroid; before then, he'd always been skinny.

Also, he won't be straight with his age...last time I checked, he was telling everyone he was born in 1929...which would make him 16 in 1945. Trouble is, he was delivering house trailers to the West Coast before then, acccording to his book...most evidence suggests that Andy was actually born in 1923.


Dan

[Tifositoo]

I'm a little confused as to why anybody trying to find a falsehood in Granatelli's book even needed to go to the trouble of opening it.

It's an interesting read, but you have to take a lot of things he says with a grain of salt. A lot of autobiographies are that way.



Dan

[JThur1]

pedantic adjective1. hairsplitting, particular, formal, precise, fussy, picky (informal), nit-picking (informal), punctilious, priggish, pedagogic, anal retentive, overnice

slipshod adjective 1.slipshod - marked by great carelessness; "a most haphazard system of record keeping"; "slapdash work"; "slipshod spelling"; "sloppy workmanship"
slapdash, haphazard, sloppy
careless - marked by lack of attention or consideration or forethought or thoroughness; not careful; "careless about her clothes"; "forgotten by some careless person"; "a careless housekeeper"; "careless proofreading"; "it was a careless mistake"; "hurt by a careless remark"

[ZOOOM]

Ha...
These forums are totally cool!
When I read them I crack myself up!
ZOOOM

[flatlander_48]

Ha...
These forums are totally cool!
When I read them I crack myself up!
ZOOOM

Just try to keep it off the wall. OK?