Great Looking Notre Dame Uniforms!!!

**jkg** · 08-17-2012 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Doyouloveit?

So, I'm correct. It never happed during the game until last season.

If you had specified that music on the PA during breaks in the game was first played during the Kelly era, you might have been correct. However, your initial post said only: "Crazy Train on the PA system", implying that was the first time recorded music had been played on the PA system in general during ND game days.

Of course, if you truly believe that playing music on the PA during timeouts, very select night games, or one-off alternate unis are signs of being "desperate", we certainly have a different definition of that word.

BTW, how about that ND schedule this season? I've been following CFB closely for decades, and ND 2012 has one of the most brutal schedules I've ever seen: (8)Michigan, (12)Michigan State, Miami, (13) Stanford, (4) Oklahoma and (3)USC.

Throw in "breathers" against Navy, Purdue, BC, BYU, and Wake and that's quite the gauntlet. If desperate Kelly can get 8 wins out of that group, he's done a great job.

pb · 08-18-2012 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by jkg

If you had specified that music on the PA during breaks in the game was first played during the Kelly era, you might have been correct. However, your initial post said only: "Crazy Train on the PA system", implying that was the first time recorded music had been played on the PA system in general during ND game days.

Of course, if you truly believe that playing music on the PA during timeouts, very select night games, or one-off alternate unis are signs of being "desperate", we certainly have a different definition of that word.

BTW, how about that ND schedule this season? I've been following CFB closely for decades, and ND 2012 has one of the most brutal schedules I've ever seen: (8)Michigan, (12)Michigan State, Miami, (13) Stanford, (4) Oklahoma and (3)USC.

Throw in "breathers" against Navy, Purdue, BC, BYU, and Wake and that's quite the gauntlet. If desperate Kelly can get 8 wins out of that group, he's done a great job.

Have to agree, that schedule appears to be a grind. That said, I still can't stand ND and those one-off uniforms are hideous and seem beneath what ND wants us to believe it represents.

**Frank Capua** · 08-18-2012 10:20 AM

This is just wrong. Notre Dame had the greatest, most recognizable uniforms in College Football. Gold pants, gold Helmet, Dark blue jersey or plain white and Green for games that are important to the Gipper.

To mess with perfection is an abomination.

**ajwest92** · 08-20-2012 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by Frank Capua

This is just wrong. Notre Dame had the greatest, most recognizable uniforms in College Football. Gold pants, gold Helmet, Dark blue jersey or plain white and Green for games that are important to the Gipper.

To mess with perfection is an abomination.

+1. I can't stand these one offs every year...we can blame Oregon (or Nike U, whichever you prefer) with this uniform changes to every school every stinking week.

**Truth Detector** · 08-20-2012 09:23 AM

I'll preface that I hate these uniforms and I hate any and all one-off uniforms.

But college coaches are more interested in what 6'6" 300# 18 year-olds think. And those kids love this kind of stuff.

**jkg** · 08-20-2012 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Truth Detector

I'll preface that I hate these uniforms and I hate any and all one-off uniforms.

But college coaches are more interested in what 6'6" 300# 18 year-olds think. And those kids love this kind of stuff.

Exactly.

**Frank Capua** · 08-20-2012 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Truth Detector

I'll preface that I hate these uniforms and I hate any and all one-off uniforms.

But college coaches are more interested in what 6'6" 300# 18 year-olds think. And those kids love this kind of stuff.

More reason why I wish Coaches had to recruit real students.

But I bet it's a little different at Notre Dame where players are answering the call of tradition... I mean it has to be tradition, who would want to go there based on wins and losses from the past decade... Right?

Oh and the helmets remind me of the All-star game played in Japan where they decorate their school helmets with decals from the teams of the other players they meet there.

**Truth Detector** · 08-20-2012 10:54 AM

Yes, but these kids look at the Lou Holtz era the way we look at the Knute Rockne era.

**Frank Capua** · 08-20-2012 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Truth Detector

Yes, but these kids look at the Lou Holtz era the way we look at the Knute Rockne era.

Well fine... just ruin my day.

**comfortably numb** · 08-20-2012 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Truth Detector

I'll preface that I hate these uniforms and I hate any and all one-off uniforms.

But college coaches are more interested in what 6'6" 300# 18 year-olds think. And those kids love this kind of stuff.

Yup. Me too.

**Doyouloveit?** · 08-20-2012 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Truth Detector

Yes, but these kids look at the Lou Holtz era the way we look at the Knute Rockne era.

Yep, the recruits today don't look at ND the same way somone does who was born before 1990. The college recruit today knows ND as an average program with no big time wins or BCS bowl wins in the last 10 or 15 years. Is the ND tradition still a selling point? I guess so, but not what it use to be for sure. Is the ND on TV for every game still a selling point? Again, I guess so but not what it use to be 10 plus years ago. Now combine that with having to leave in South Bend, IN and the tough academic standards, it is a tough sell for big time recruits. So, now ND has to buy into all the gimmicks of college football to keep pace with big time (winning) programs they recruit against.

**jkg** · 08-20-2012 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Doyouloveit?

Is the ND tradition still a selling point? I guess so,

I would guess so as well. Despite the fact the program has only had one top 10 season since 1993 (9th in 2005), they continue to get great hauls of recruits.

To wit:
Year / NCAA rank per Scout.com
2013 / 4th
2012 / 16th
2011 / 8th
2010 / 19th

There's clearly some attraction that allows them to recruit right along side the heavyweights of the sport. Part of that is probably recruiting budget, but I doubt that the South Bend weather is the other reason. Maybe its the lack of rock music on the PA.

**mstove** · 08-20-2012 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by jkg

I would guess so as well. Despite the fact the program has only had one top 10 season since 1993 (9th in 2005), they continue to get great hauls of recruits.

To wit:
Year / NCAA rank per Scout.com
2013 / 4th
2012 / 16th
2011 / 8th
2010 / 19th

There's clearly some attraction that allows them to recruit right along side the heavyweights of the sport. Part of that is probably recruiting budget, but I doubt that the South Bend weather is the other reason. Maybe its the lack of rock music on the PA.

It might also say something about how accurate scouting rankings are and what they actually mean for on-field performance.

**jkg** · 08-20-2012 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by mstove

It might also say something about how accurate scouting rankings are and what they actually mean for on-field performance.

You have to develop the talent, and in that regard ND has failed miserably. For example, Weis was pretty successful, until he had to use players that he had to develop. He was probably clueless on that, having zero college football experience.

The rankings are far from a perfect science, but ND is going around the country and plucking guys out from under football powers in their own backyards, guys that have offers from those other football powers. They couldn't do that if there wasn't something powerful about Notre Dame.

**Doyouloveit?** · 08-20-2012 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by jkg

I would guess so as well. Despite the fact the program has only had one top 10 season since 1993 (9th in 2005), they continue to get great hauls of recruits.

To wit:
Year / NCAA rank per Scout.com
2013 / 4th
2012 / 16th
2011 / 8th
2010 / 19th

There's clearly some attraction that allows them to recruit right along side the heavyweights of the sport. Part of that is probably recruiting budget, but I doubt that the South Bend weather is the other reason.

If you were a big time college recruit...does South Bend, IN (sans the weather is still a dump for the most part) sound good compared to Southern California, Tuscaloosa, Baton Rouge, Austin, etc?

ND has always been a top of the recruiting ranks which I'd argue is inflated because it is ND. Regardless, it still hasn't produced top 5 seasons, national championships, BCS bowl victories or big time wins. For whatever reason, big time recruits go to ND and neither progress into great players or they were overrated. Why do those big time recruits always look slow when they play SEC schools?

I'd argue that ND will never be a great/really good team on sustained level again because of the academic restrictions. Lets face it, big time recruits aren't in it for the academics. I read that when ND was pursuing Urban Meyer he turned down the job because the ND administration wouldn't give him the option to give a few recruits a pass each year when they didn't meet the academic qualifications.

**mstove** · 08-20-2012 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by jkg

You have to develop the talent, and in that regard ND has failed miserably. For example, Weis was pretty successful, until he had to use players that he had to develop. He was probably clueless on that, having zero college football experience.

The rankings are far from a perfect science, but ND is going around the country and plucking guys out from under football powers in their own backyards, guys that have offers from those other football powers. They couldn't do that if there wasn't something powerful about Notre Dame.

Or, and more and more people seem to think there is something to this, when ND looks hard at a high school kid the scouts automatically give that kid a bump in their ratings. There is no way that the different groups that try and keep up with high school rankings really have a great idea of who every top hs player is. So, when a traditional power looks at someone they are pushed up (that isn't just a Notre Dame phenomenon). You can blame it on how much ND develops players, but at the end of the day the lack of correlation between great recruiting classes and on-field success there says it is more than just that. It says their classes are over-rated.

I actually agree with you that tradition still has something to do with ND and recruiting. It just matters to a much smaller pool of players than it did say twenty years ago.

**Frank Capua** · 08-20-2012 12:12 PM

I think it's because there are still a lot of kids who want to score a Touchdown for Jesus.

**jkg** · 08-20-2012 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Doyouloveit?

If you were a big time college recruit...does South Bend, IN (sans the weather is still a dump for the most part) sound good compared to Southern California, Tuscaloosa, Baton Rouge, Austin, etc?
.

Go to the scout site, and check out where ND lands their recruits. It HAS to be the most geographically diverse team in the country outside of probably the academies. They are able to attract literally nationwide, from Massachusetts to Florida to Texas to California, to Hawaii.

Here's one example, Tee Shepard, 5 star out of Fresno, CA. Offered by Alabama, Miami, as well as nearly the entire Pac-12 including USC. He picked ND.
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73...=1&nid=4378627

The numerous examples of kids picking ND over more local powerhouses (who extend full offers) indicates the problem in South Bend is much more about development than the classes being overrated by virtue of the recruits being on ND's radar. It's not like these kids are picking ND over directional Michigan or a CUSA team, they are picking ND over the blue bloods of the sport. The kids might be overrated in hindsight, but at the time of recruitment, ND is not alone thinking they will be elite since the powerhouses are offering as well.

Either ND is bad at development or they are incredibly unlucky year after year.

**Truth Detector** · 08-20-2012 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by mstove

Or, and more and more people seem to think there is something to this, when ND looks hard at a high school kid the scouts automatically give that kid a bump in their ratings. There is no way that the different groups that try and keep up with high school rankings really have a great idea of who every top hs player is. So, when a traditional power looks at someone they are pushed up (that isn't just a Notre Dame phenomenon). You can blame it on how much ND develops players, but at the end of the day the lack of correlation between great recruiting classes and on-field success there says it is more than just that. It says their classes are over-rated.

I actually agree with you that tradition still has something to do with ND and recruiting. It just matters to a much smaller pool of players than it did say twenty years ago.

It's not just the scouts. Major college coaches react the same way. There are countless examples of kids local D-1 schools not offering a scholarship until they realize that the Irish are about to or just did. Looking locally, if Notre Dame offers a kid you can almost guarantee that IU & PU will immediately follow. Sometimes sight unseen.

**jkg** · 08-20-2012 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Doyouloveit?

I'd argue that ND will never be a great/really good team on sustained level again because of the academic restrictions. .

I'm not really familiar with the academic differences for ND compared to an LSU, but I certainly accept that is a hurdle that would be difficult to overcome year in and year out. However, there's zero excuse for ND to lose 3 of 4 to Navy or not be as good as Northwestern/Stanford who have high academic standards as well.

ND's biggest problem has been their choices of head coaches. Since Dan Devine left, they have hired: a high school coach (epic fail), a successful college head coach (huge success), a college coach with zero head coaching experience (mediocre at very best), a college head coach that later demonstrated to be very, very bad (below average), a NFL guy with zero head or college coaching experience (epic fail), and now another successful college head coach (jury out).

The head coaches get paid a ton in college football, but they are hugely important to wins/losses. Nearly every college football power has experienced significant decline when coached by a guy who was unqualified: Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, USC, Miami, LSU, Alabama ...... Before Kelly, ND had hired a qualified individual exactly once in their last 5 hires. Kelly may not work out, but at least it was a reasonable hire. Hopefully, the next one will be too.

**Doyouloveit?** · 08-20-2012 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by jkg

I'm not really familiar with the academic differences for ND compared to an LSU, but I certainly accept that is a hurdle that would be difficult to overcome year in and year out. However, there's zero excuse for ND to lose 3 of 4 to Navy or not be as good as Northwestern/Stanford who have high academic standards as well.

ND's biggest problem has been their choices of head coaches. Since Dan Devine left, they have hired: a high school coach (epic fail), a successful college head coach (huge success), a college coach with zero head coaching experience (mediocre at very best), a college head coach that later demonstrated to be very, very bad (below average), a NFL guy with zero head or college coaching experience (epic fail), and now another successful college head coach (jury out).

The head coaches get paid a ton in college football, but they are hugely important to wins/losses. Nearly every college football power has experienced significant decline when coached by a guy who was unqualified: Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, USC, Miami, LSU, Alabama ...... Before Kelly, ND had hired a qualified individual exactly once in their last 5 hires. Kelly may not work out, but at least it was a reasonable hire. Hopefully, the next one will be too.

I think you gave the #1 reason as to why ND will never get a big time/name coach....the academic hurdles. Wasn't Kelly 3rd or 4th down the list? Ditto for Charlie Weis?

Again, ND always ranks well in recruiting...but think about how smaller the pool of big time recruits is for ND versus Alabama, LSU, USC, Texas, etc. Big name and successful head coaches don't want academics to interfere with their recruiting process.

**mstove** · 08-20-2012 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Truth Detector

It's not just the scouts. Major college coaches react the same way. There are countless examples of kids local D-1 schools not offering a scholarship until they realize that the Irish are about to or just did. Looking locally, if Notre Dame offers a kid you can almost guarantee that IU & PU will immediately follow. Sometimes sight unseen.

Absolutely. I only mentioned the scouting aspect because that was being discussed. And, it isn't just the Irish. What is interesting is that the Irish continue to receive that kind of respect (for lack of a better word) no matter how many of their great classes produce very little.

**Frank Capua** · 08-20-2012 01:30 PM

Yes, it really puts a college coach at a disadvantage if he can only pick kids who have a desire or even a chance at graduating.

**jkg** · 08-20-2012 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Doyouloveit?

I think you gave the #1 reason as to why ND will never get a big time/name coach....the academic hurdles. .

Even if that's true, it doesn't mean they have to hire high school coaches or NFL assistants. A solid C-plus hire of a guy with success at a lower level of coaching (smaller FBS or even FCS like Tressel) would be infinitely superior to the Faust's and Weis's of the world.