NFL Replacement Officials

[Frank Capua]

Why are you talking about the past? I'm talking about a hypothetical future.

Wait, you said; "If you pay an official top bucks and they suck you can get rid of them. Unions don't allow that."

So I'll ask again. When has the NFL Officials Union ever stopped the firing of an official for poor on field performance? When has the NFL Officials Union ever stopped the firing of an official for off field behavior detrimental to the League?

[Truth Detector]

Come on, Frank. I said "unions don't allow that"

Then you want to pin me down to "When has the NFL Officials Union ever...."

If you don't recognize that unions (I didn't specify NFL Officials Union -- you did) protect substandard employees then I will reserve my discussion for people with their eyes open.

[PHJIndy]

Wish I could. Satellite is delayed too much.

Collinsworth is PAINFUL to listen to.

There wasn't much of a delay tonight.

[Frank Capua]

Come on, Frank. I said "unions don't allow that"

Then you want to pin me down to "When has the NFL Officials Union ever...."

If you don't recognize that unions (I didn't specify NFL Officials Union -- you did) protect substandard employees then I will reserve my discussion for people with their eyes open.

I know for a fact that Unions support due process and fight firings without cause but to suggest that Unions don't allow firings and to suggest that folks that question that statement have their eyes closed is just Winger-speak. Recently as last season an NFL official was fired for off field behavior and the Union didn't stand in the way of that. It's as important to the Union that their members are competent as it is to the fans and the League if not more.

It's the reason that the NFL Referees Association holds classes and training sessions for it's members... Their on field performance is supremely important to them.

But yeah, that's funny if I question your gross politically fueled exaggerations and toss in a little reality into the conversation then you won't converse with me.

[Truth Detector]

Name calling = proof of victory.

My "politically fueled exaggerations" come directly from my lifelong union member father-in-law who is more conservative than me but votes Democrat every time because the union tells him to do so.

Try again. And this time at least be creative with the name calling. I was previously called a "winger" (despite the board's policy against name calling) by another poster who can't or won't discuss merit.

Oh, my wife is a member of the teachers union. Same deal...union won't allow the school to get rid of poor teachers.

[StatMan]

My sister tried to get a job teaching in New York State The teachers union there is completely out of control.

[JSR]

These refs suck. It's time for the NFL and the real refs to get the deal done.

[Gomer Simpson]

What do the real refs want? They might be able to the the public on their side, if they could just articulate that one point. I still have no idea.

[PHJIndy]

Name calling = proof of victory.

My "politically fueled exaggerations" come directly from my lifelong union member father-in-law who is more conservative than me but votes Democrat every time because the union tells him to do so.

Try again. And this time at least be creative with the name calling. I was previously called a "winger" (despite the board's policy against name calling) by another poster who can't or won't discuss merit.

Oh, my wife is a member of the teachers union. Same deal...union won't allow the school to get rid of poor teachers.

IMO, no one can "tell" anyone how to vote once the curtain closes!

[Frank Capua]

Teachers get fired all the time down here in Florida... and not just the ones getting caught having sex with students... I even initiated the fight to have a teacher fired when my son was in the fifth grade who had lied about the way he was disciplining students when I was volunteering in the classroom. Working for Allison's before I moved to Florida I saw two Union workers fired in the five years I was there... one for having drugs in his possession and the other for stealing tools. And that was just in the Test & Durability dept. Plus we are talking about NFL officials and TD, you took part in the thread that discussed the NFL official who was fired last season for being involved in gambling. So your denial isn't based in the reality you are versed in... it must be motivated by something else.

Seeking due process does mean it doesn't happen quick enough to suit some but it does not keep it from happening so long as their is cause. And I didn't call you a winger... I said you were using winger-speech. A common misconception accepted as fact on the Right.

[Jim Wilke]

It's a bad deal when a casual fan in front of a TV in Anchorage, Alaska knows the signal for 'roughing the QB' is not the same as 'intentional grounding' and the refs don't. Twice.

[StatMan]

I even initiated the fight to have a teacher fired when my son was in the fifth grade who had lied about the way he was disciplining students when I was volunteering in the classroom.

Did the union blindly side with said teacher the whole way instead of caring about dealing with their own rotten apples? If not, that's awesome, but it's pretty rare (and not just with unions, it's probably true of most official or unofficial associations of people). Did the teacher get fired or did you just put up a fight, and that's it?

Working for Allison's before I moved to Florida I saw two Union workers fired in the five years I was there... one for having drugs in his possession and the other for stealing tools.

What gets me is that even with a much less strong teacher's union than some of the worst places in the country, all of your examples are of people committing some significant crime and ethics violations in their workplace. Possibly an indication that performance is nearly irrelevant so long as you don't lie to your boss or rob him.

And I didn't call you a winger... I said you were using winger-speech. A common misconception accepted as fact on the Right.

I really shouldn't have to point out that "The Left" is just as likely as "The Right" to mistake "Your point is invalid b/c of your [noun]-speech" for "You're a [noun]"

And it's just a childish cop-out anyway. It's along the lines of.
"Don't be so stupid"
"Son, don't call your brother stupid."
"But Dad, I didn't say he was stupid, I just said he was acting stupid!"

So I'll ask again. When has the NFL Officials Union ever stopped the firing of an official for poor on field performance?

Something very similar to that is happening right now. The NFL wants to have a greater pool of officials so that they can more easily rotate "backups" in for those who have poor on-field performance - and the Officials Union is refusing to allow this.

[Jim Wilke]

Refs are leaking out that their demand amounts to about $6,000 per team per game. 'Peanuts' says the casual fan -- but Statman's point about having a bigger pool to draw from is the bigger issue.