What does this mean from the Earnhardt accident press conference?

[Professor Joe]

Third, NASCAR plans additional work with safety-equipment manufacturers
over the problem of "dumping", which reportedly caused Earnhardt's lap belt
to fail at the adjuster, and to improve the belt system and its attachments.

What is "dumping."

[jandj]

As best I understand it , " dumping " is the term for the way the loadings are increased ( and where they occur ) when the belt is incorrectly mounted .

The analogy I've seen is that it is like the trick used to tear a phone book by creasing it first , starting a tear , then using leverage rather than strength to complete the tear ( with the adjuster bar being the crease and the bunching caused by the belt being mounted at the wrong angle being the tearing point ).

I'm sure someone with more engineering skills than I can explain it more thoroughly , but that's the way I understand it .

[ August 21, 2001: Message edited by: jandj ]

[Professor Joe]

So, does this let Simpson off the hook and basically put the blame on RCR?

[Jason]

From the sound of the press conference, they are putting all the blame on Simpson. And they shouldn't.
Jason

[jandj]

RCR says they couldn't mount the belts per the instructions , and that Dale had run them this way for a long time .

Simpson says if you mount them the way the instructions say to there isn't a problem. They also say they told Dale a long time ago the belts were mounted wrong and that it was dangerous.

I watched both press conferences .

NASCAR's seemed to be more of the same , not actually saying it was Simpson's fault , but wording it in such a way the implication was obvious .

Simpson's was more direct : If you use them the way we tell you to , they won't break .

I don't think this is anywhere near over.

[MrIndy]

This is one, and the only one I have seen so far as an explanation of "dumping":

"Raddin, a director with San Antonio-based Biodynamic Research Corp., attributed the break to a phenomenon called "dumping" - when the webbing is pulled or moved to one side of the adjustment device.

When a dumped belt is under stress, it can separate and tear across the entire webbing."

It came from an article at the iWon web site: http://sports.iwon.com/news/08212001...rdtreport.html

I don't know if you can use this link or not. It may require registration.

Due to a really tight schedule today, I have missed the press conferences and news reports and just got home and read this from my portal. This is the only report I have seen to date, but it sure puts a whole lot on Simpson safety products.

I also don't think this is over. There is no mention in this article to Bill Simpson other than to say he resigned a month ago "because of too much stress" from this situation. I am sure you all know, Bill Simpson has some partners who, I guess, are now running the business and may not have the devotion Bill does to stay out of court. But that is just a SWAG on my part.

What were your impressions over all if you saw the press conference? Did someone say Simpson also had a press conference today? What came from it if there was one?

[Joe Fan]

I watched both conferences and I was really impressed at the experts that NASCAR had presenting their findings and the degree of analysis that went into this whole ordeal.

Basically, NASCAR is not blaming Simpson's products but it is not totally conclusive that his product was not faulty. Dr. Raddin presented the fact that the belts were not installed as traditionally done, some of this was due to the type of seat Earnhardt used which did not have inlet holes for the beats to slip through in certain areas. However, he did mention that Earnhardt had his belts mounted in this way for years and never had a problem. But in Simpson's press conference, he supposedly had told Earnhardt himself that his belts were not mounted correctly and recommended that he not mount them that way. So, more research is supposed to be done to test belt strength and different mounting methods to prevent "dumping."

Overall, this presentation was not a blame game and Dr. Raddin said that it would be difficult to assign a percentage to each factor that contributed to Dale's death. He said that the contact with the #36 car shortly before Dale hit the wall, makes it difficult to discern when the belt broke and how much this impact contributed to the impact into the wall.

He did state his belief (and backed it up) why he felt the contact with the steering wheel is what caused Dale's fatal basilar skull fractures. I agree with his position and felt that he went further than the pathologist in the autopsy report, in proving the exact cause of these fractures.

[slinger]

I was by no means satisfied by this.The entire thing raised far more questions than it answered.This is a long way from being over.

[Teej]

"If their mounted incorrectly, you go from 5,800 pounds of safety to 1,900 pounds of safety and that's what NASCAR's own experts ...showed, that the margin of safety is reduced by 50 to 60%." - David McCandles, engineer from Simpson

"First, Dale Earnhardt was committed to safety. He chose to install his restraint system in a manner that he believed would be most beneficial to him. His system has served him well over many years in many different types of accidents, some of them quite severe." - Bob Horn, attorney for Simpson

NASCAR admitted in the report that the load capacity of the safety harness was cut in half from 5,900 pounds to 1,900-2,200 because its rear anchor points was mounted incorrectly...

[StatMan]

I think JoeFan's post is pretty much what I was going to say, only he said it better. Teej's quotes are also very informative.

Overall, I'm happy with what's being done. I'm not completely satisfied, but trying not to be impatient. Solutions will come, and solutions are being searched for. My personal opinion is that adopting energy-absoring walls is the best idea but I'll leave that up to the researchers and experts.

-StatMan

[MM658]

I'm in slinger's camp on this one.

NASCAR would've been better served in the long run if they'd simply swallowed the bitter pill now and truly moved on. Instead, they spent $1m and 6 months to spruce up the same ol' press conference they had back in February, and paid lip service to the idea of moving on.

No report/press conference that includes Helton using that familiar phrase, "not going to react for the sake of reacting" (code for: keeping our heads in the sand) is going to satisfy me. And no one should "move on" just because the Powers That Be say we should.

step33 said it well in a thread on the IRL board - I quote it here to avoid continuing an off-topic thread over there:

If NASCAR would have said "The belt failed because it was improperly mounted. We didn't properly police this safety equipment, and in combination with several other circumstances in this accident, we have now buried our greatest hero".

If they say THAT, then I'll get off their backs on the this issue.

Leaving safety to the drivers is NOT a good idea. I believe the sanctioning bodies should have MORE knowledge and experience than the drivers, and thus should strictly mandate safety procedures.

[hwc]

Originally posted by MM658:
<STRONG>
NASCAR would've been better served in the long run if they'd simply swallowed the bitter pill now and truly moved on. Instead, they spent $1m and 6 months to spruce up the same ol' press conference they had back in February, and paid lip service to the idea of moving on. </STRONG>

Actually, the $1 million bought NASCAR the single best tool ever developed for improving safety: the development of a 67,000 element finite element analysis model of a Winston Cup Monte Carlo. It also bought them validation of this model by comparing the results of simulations run on the model to the actual results of the full-scale impact testing of a WC Monte Carlo and by comparison of the computer simulation of Earnhardt's crash to the damage observed to his car.

As is usually the case, the media has missed the BIG story coming out of the report. The fact that the impact testing and development of a validated model took place in just six months is nothing short of miraculous. Very impressive stuff.

[MM658]

Yeah, I did see that, and it is pretty impressive, but beyond the fact that they could've developed it on their own, before something like this had happened, let's play a little 'what if.'

It's May, 1999. The IRL has just attempted to run a race at Lowe's Motor Speedway, where a wheel has flown into the grandstands and killed three people and seriously injured a fourth.
What if...
The IRL decided to "not react for the sake of reacting."
The IRL spent 6 months and $1m to study the situation.
The IRL announced in November, 1999, that they were still not going to react for the sake of reacting, but had developed a sophisicated computer model of wheel and suspsension physics, so that the next time a wheel flew into the stands and killed people, they'd be able to analyze it better.

Would this be a good thing?


One final criticism of the study --
Where's the anlaysis of the Petty, Irwin and Roper accidents, which we were led to believe would also be part of this process?

I don't believe there were any broken seatbelts in those crashes. Were they ignored simply because they did not provide the same handy scapegoat that Earnhardt's accident provided? Just a thought....

[Railbird]

http://espn.go.com/rpm/wc/2001/0822/1242801.html

Earnhardt killed himself with a belt instalation that wouldn't be legal at most Saturday Night short tracks..Nascar assisted by invoking the "Dale'a always done it his way" codicil and is now trying to wipe the blood off of their shoes...

Simpson deserves a day in court.

IMO.

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Railbird ]

[dog-ring]

Originally posted by Railbird:
<STRONG>http://espn.go.com/rpm/wc/2001/0822/1242801.html

Earnhardt killed himself with a belt instalation that wouldn't be legal at most Saturday Night short tracks..Nascar assisted by invoking the "Dale'a always done it his way" codicil and is now trying to wipe the blood off of their shoes...

Simpson deserves a day in court.

IMO.

[ August 23, 2001: Message edited by: Railbird ]</STRONG>

In our Saturday night truck series, CARS, at IRP, our trucks are constantly checked for safety equiptment and it is not unusual for someone to ne told to change the way a piece of equiptment is installed! Even our series has rules as to seat belt location and installation!

[Railbird]

dog-ring...

I was a Friday Night warrior at IRP back in the early seventies...

Even back then they wouldn't let you secure your shoulder harness like Earnhardt had his...

Nascar letting him use an old van seat with bad belt mounting points borders on criminal IMO.

The following is all my opinion....

If Dale wanted to wear an open face helmet, I guess that's his choice, it's his head... However, most sanctioning bodies take possesion of your extremeties at the pit gate, but maybe not nascar...But, and Lord knows it's a big butt, Nascar seems to control everything that is bolted to that racecar, so why didn't they mandate a proper seat with an approved belt mounting geometry?

Was the restrictor plate checked closer than the safety devices?

Would the answer to that question tell you much about the sanctioning body?

[MrIndy]

'Bird, NASCAR has just hired a doctor full time to be at the WC races, open wheel did it, what 20 - 30 or more years ago?

NASCAR doesn't have full time safety personnel, open wheel has had these teams for as long as I can remember.

NASCAR doesn't mandate safety equipment, installation or anything else relative to safety, open wheel has been doing it for decades.

I am in total agreement with your analysis of NASCAR at the gate with drivers, they are not there and need to be. Running an old van seat in a race car going at least 180 mph is beyond criminal.

In addition, Richard Childress is somewhat to blame for allowing DE to do this. He is the team owner and knew that seat was in there and don't tell me he didn't know the belts were mounted incorrectly.

NASCAR has recognized that perhaps their car structures are not as safe as could be. Duhh, we all knew that last year.

It may take more than this whole soap opera to pull NASCAR's head's out of the Daytona sands.

And I don't think this is the end of this chapter.