Any thoughts? Will it snag drivers from the IRL or truck series?
Any thoughts? Will it snag drivers from the IRL or truck series?
It definitely will be interesting.
They are starting with a whole new idea with the city/regional concept, where each team will be identified with a different city or region, like the stick and ball sports. Most racing series eventually winds up with most teams centrally located, like most of the NASCAR teams in the Charlotte area, most of the IRL and CART teams in the Indianapolis area, and most of the F1 teams in the midlands of England.
The stick and ball sports are located in the different cities where they play. The TRAC concept has the cars racing where the tracks are, and they aren't always necessarily where the participating cities are. For example, the New York City team wouldn't have a track nearby. But with the magic of TV, maybe that wouldn't matter.
Another interesting thing they mentioned was that the drivers would be drafted from a pool.
One thing they didn't specify though, was if this series was going to be an oval only series, or if there would be road racing. It would seem logical that they would do some road racing since these cars are so much like the Trans-Am cars.
DVR . . . . Life is too short to watch commercials.
The "city" concept is just stupid. A racing fan in say, Indianapolis (BTW TRAC claims to have a "team Indy" but Indy is a trademark of another, far more successful racing series) is going to root for who ever "team Indy" has over "team Chicago" or "team Miami". When the drivers from "team anywhere" have no relationship with the towns?
In current NASCAR racing, fans pick the drivers. Each fan, more or less, picks a driver whose public personal is attractive to them. DE fans wish they were DE, TS fans wish they were TS, etc.
This reverses that. Lets see your zip code. OK, you are a fan of X & Y. Right.
The whole idea is just nothing. Its Trans-Am looking, but NASCAR spec, cars, running ovals.
Unless they spend billions to lure knowledgable NASCAR owners and skilled and known NASCAR drivers over, they will fail totally.
3 races before CBS pulls the plug.
You like racing the way it is. I have my own preferences. Don't dismiss this out of hand until it's had its chance to succeed or fail. They're trying to morph into something that will be easier for the stick and ball press to relate to. I don't think much of the idea as racing, but a lot of "racing" isn't what I consider racing anyway.
Originally posted by SamC:
<STRONG>The "city" concept is just stupid. A racing fan in say, Indianapolis (BTW TRAC claims to have a "team Indy" but Indy is a trademark of another, far more successful racing series) is going to root for who ever "team Indy" has over "team Chicago" or "team Miami". When the drivers from "team anywhere" have no relationship with the towns?
In current NASCAR racing, fans pick the drivers. Each fan, more or less, picks a driver whose public personal is attractive to them. DE fans wish they were DE, TS fans wish they were TS, etc.
This reverses that. Lets see your zip code. OK, you are a fan of X & Y. Right.
The whole idea is just nothing. Its Trans-Am looking, but NASCAR spec, cars, running ovals.
Unless they spend billions to lure knowledgable NASCAR owners and skilled and known NASCAR drivers over, they will fail totally.
3 races before CBS pulls the plug.</STRONG>
Peter Olivola (polivola@ameritech.net)
"Too dumb for opera
too smart for NASCAR"
I don't think it will work. I don't see the demand in the marketplace for another stock car series. Hard-core racing fans have enough series to choose from these days and I don't see non-fans suddenly flocking to this because of the "city" concept.
The Ayn Rand of Indycar
No one had to badge the Offy.
This series has the potential to really hurt the IRL, a series that already has no fans and no sponsors and is slowly losing a lot if its drivers due to injuries. People can relate to Corvettes Vipers and Mustangs. I think this is perfect, there are tons of good named drivers out there that can run in this series without buying a ride.
Is it flamebait to come to a redominantly IRL-based website and charge that the IRL has "no fans" ? Yes, I think it is.
The biggest issue I see is that there is an $11 million buy-in, and only $2.5 million of that is actual investment in equipment. That's going to be an incredibly hard sell in today's environment.
The problem for any series like this, or even CART, IRL, ALMS, etc. is that the current yardstick for ROI (whether you're a sponsor, team owner, driver, etc.) is NASCAR. Spending $8.5 million for blue sky isn't much ROI. I won't go so far as to say "it'll never turn a wheel," but it won't be what it intends to be.
"It was actually fun, because you're back fully driving again in these trucks. Ninety percent of the tracks we go to in the IRL, you're flat-out. I was having to lift off the corners some here." - Buddy Rice
well, especially if it's a Predominately IRL-based website...Originally posted by doitagain:
<STRONG>Is it flamebait to come to a redominantly IRL-based website and charge that the IRL has "no fans" ? Yes, I think it is.</STRONG>
Maybe he thought it was called TRACforum.Originally posted by doitagain:
<STRONG>Is it flamebait to come to a redominantly IRL-based website and charge that the IRL has "no fans" ? Yes, I think it is.</STRONG>
Definition of support series: A series that needs the support of the headliner class to draw a crowd.
Nobody will be buying a ride. The drivers are all supposed to be drafted. They're playing the stick-and-ball analogy for all it's worth.Originally posted by MOMO:
<STRONG>This series has the potential to really hurt the IRL, a series that already has no fans and no sponsors and is slowly losing a lot if its drivers due to injuries. People can relate to Corvettes Vipers and Mustangs. I think this is perfect, there are tons of good named drivers out there that can run in this series without buying a ride.</STRONG>
I wonder if they will encourage teams to get drivers from near the "home" track. The team/city aspect might work better if, say, Team Colorado consisted of Rick Carelli, Roger Avants and Jerry Robertson (all former CNS track champs) rather than 3 guys from North Carolina, Missouri and Michigan.
Then there is the schedule. It will be all Saturday afternoon/night, so as not to conflict with WC. I don't know about anyone else, but if I have a Saturday night free to watch motorsports, I won't be turning on my TV, I'll be up at CNS, even if the aforementioned local drivers are running at Bristol that night.
DB
You've got a problem with Bruce Yackey or Mike Opperman?Originally posted by DonnieB:
<STRONG>
The team/city aspect might work better if, say, Team Colorado consisted of Rick Carelli, Roger Avants and Jerry Robertson (all former CNS track champs) </STRONG>
Not at all. I hadda draw lots just to get those three. Bruce and Mike drew the short straws.Originally posted by Racewriter:
<STRONG>
You've got a problem with Bruce Yackey or Mike Opperman?
If Fritz Wilson was about 35 years younger, he woulda been my first pick.
From http://www.go.to/tracnews
Well, RW, it looks like Yackey and Opperman get to be on Team Colorado after all. Still need one more, though. Man, if Denver really does get a team, the car count at CNS is gonna be pathetic!Driver info: Owners will pick six drivers for their teams, three starters and three backups. They will be paid a base salary (likely $200,000) and will receive incentives based on performance.(SpeedFX)(04-25-02)
This means, of course, that the concept of "benchwarmer" is being introduced to motorsports. They really are playing the stick-and-ball angle to the max, aren't they? I wonder how that will work. I can see the "subs" coming into a race to take the place of a teammate who has crashed out or blown up. Whaddaya think? Wild speculation or the real deal? They ain't payin' those guys $200k per year just to sub for a teammate with the flu.
On the engines, I bet they will be aluminum Chevy rat motor clones, with aftermarket EFI. All of 'em. Viper, Mustang, Corvette; don't matter.
If they get any existing race fans to watch, that'll be great, we'll be welcome, but I get the feeling we aren't the ones they are really marketing this to.
I still wonder how close they came to naming it "Team Racing Auto Championship".
The more I see of it the less I like it.
DB
Is Fritz still around? He raced against my dad AND my Granddad. Not to mention, he ran the first Daytona 500 in a factory T-Bird.Originally posted by DonnieB:
<STRONG>
Not at all. I hadda draw lots just to get those three. Bruce and Mike drew the short straws.
If Fritz Wilson was about 35 years younger, he woulda been my first pick.
I wouldn't be reserving my tickets to TRAC races yet...
Economic realities:
Owners: Why do this? NASCAR is open to anybody and you could buy a NASCAR team for less.
Money: You can't make money in big time racing on the purse, w/o sponsors. So you pay 11 Really Large for a team and then pour how much more into running the team?
Sponsors: NASCAR can't get enough. Let alone the IRL or TRAC-backward. So TRAC is going to get what?
Drivers: This is a skill people. And it is also a star-system. So they are going to get exactly who. A bunch of untalented no-names, that is who.
Manufacturers: Anybody seen a GM, Ford, or D-C sig on any of this? I haven't.
Live gate: With no stars, no talent and no sponsors, there will be no ticket sales.
Fan relation to Corvetes etc: Ever heard of IMSA, ALQ, ALMS, SCCA, etc?
Cities: OK so I am from zip *****, so I am for "Atlanta" which has 6 driver I never heard of and is a Dodge team. Right.
Bruton: This is a 100% Bruton Smith deal. Every thing you see is bought and paid for by Bruton and there is ZERO other money in this. He owns it just like France owns NASCAR and George owns the IRL.
TV: Probably a time by or modest payment for 0.2 ratings.
Fan demand: NASCAR Winston Cup sells out and gets 7.0 TV. NASCAR Busch does NOT. NASCAR Trucks does NOT. ARCA does NOT. ASA does NOT. IRL does NOT. TRAC-backward does NOT. So TRAC is going to jump in and get what?
IRL driver poaching: Leave the IRL for this? Right.
His version of the 1959 Daytona 500, from the Rocky Mountain News of Feb 15.Originally posted by Racewriter:
[QB]
Is Fritz still around? He raced against my dad AND my Granddad. Not to mention, he ran the first Daytona 500 in a factory T-Bird.
[QB]
Pulled into racing history
Another thought on the TRAC engines. A 600 hp rat motor is a seriously de-tuned engine. If they built one with an iron block it might last a fair while before needing a rebuild. I was thinking aluminum earlier because of the weight of the iron block.
On the cars: there is nothing there that looks like it could trickle down to the local level. The chassis probably wouldn't be useable after they were no longer needed because they're incompatible with anything currently in use, while WC chassis get passed down to ARCA and some eventually become hobby stockers at some local bullring. I don't think the TRAC chassis will trigger any clean-sheet redesigns anywhere else in stock car racing, and may have only a minor effect on the backward-compatible incremental improvements that are already underway or being considered by other sanctioning organizations.
I don't know how much they'll cost, but I'd guess one could get the same or better lap times with off-the-shelf existing designs for less money.
DB
I think the key to the success or failure for this venture lies in the manufacturer involvement $$$.
Fritz Wilson? Any relation to Don Wilson, the Jolly Rancher guy?
Some people will do nearly anything in order to be able to not do anything.
They were a brother act. Had something like 1000 wins between them, in late models, modifieds, midgets and sprints. Don was smooth, patient and workmanlike; Fritz was aggressive and flamboyant. Both were adept at "how-did-he-do-that" moves when threading through heavy traffic.Originally posted by Lucky161:
<STRONG>Fritz Wilson? Any relation to Don Wilson, the Jolly Rancher guy?</STRONG>
DB
Don I saw race lots of times, but not Fritz. You are right about Don though. I haven't been to a race in CO, but saw him in TX and OK a lot.
Confirmed: FoMoCo has served a "cease and desist" for trademark infringment upon TRAC and has issued a statement that the use of the words "Ford" and "Mustang", and stated that the use of Ford trademarks, including those of "superficial resemblance to the street Mustang and other patented Ford styling cues" are "not authorized by FoMoCo" and that Ford "has no relationship with this entity".
GM and D-C executives also report that they have had no imput on the TRAC designs attributed to their makes.
Number of manufacturers involved: zero.
Amount of manufacturer $$ involved: zero.
Never run a race.
Not real smart to get this far and not have, at least, the approval, if not the support, of the manufacturers to use their cars.
That lawsuit's a non-starter. Care to count the huge numbers of "Mustangs," "Monte Carlos," etc. running across America in their various interpretations in fiberglass and aluminum? My own late model is an incredibly loose variant on a Mustang, and I will swear and affirm that Ford had no input whatsoever into its design. TRAC has its issues, and may very well not run a race. This isn't a problem.Originally posted by SamC:
<STRONG>Confirmed: FoMoCo has served a "cease and desist" for trademark infringment upon TRAC and has issued a statement that the use of the words "Ford" and "Mustang", and stated that the use of Ford trademarks, including those of "superficial resemblance to the street Mustang and other patented Ford styling cues" are "not authorized by FoMoCo" and that Ford "has no relationship with this entity".
GM and D-C executives also report that they have had no imput on the TRAC designs attributed to their makes.
Number of manufacturers involved: zero.
Amount of manufacturer $$ involved: zero.
Never run a race.</STRONG>
http://motorsportstv.com/trac_05062002.htm
Interesting article on why TRAC will not succeed.
If there was ever an investment that I would be willing to bet my life's savings on this is it. What is it called when you sell at a high price before you buy low...?
This thing is a Turkey. Why would I support my city's team if I don't like the drivers?
Ain't engine competition grand?
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