Is America committed to fighting a "war on terrorism"?

[crispy]

I don't think so. Not as long as we keep trying to apply our normal laws concerning justice and punishment.

I keep hearing officials say that we are going to find the responsibile parties and punish them. That is debatable. Sure, we'll identify them. We might even strike back. But even if we do apprehend or kill this bunch, we have done nothing to prevent the next act of terrorism.

As long as we have to wait for the "bad guy" to commit his act of crime or try to catch them in the act of planning the crime (the current MO), we are going to miss some. I had assumed the first big one was going to be a nuclear device set off in one of our cities. This attack was cruder in some ways but much more clever in others.

Fighting the "war on terrorism" requires a mindset change. A drastic one. If we insist on being the "good guys", we must also accept that these type of events will happen and we will be left reacting to them.

The other option is not pretty. We must allow our intelligence services to go after the bad guys. The current big ones and the little ones vying to take their place. We must kill them and their families and must accept that there will be other collateral damage. We will have to do this BEFORE they harm us.

We are the guys wearing the white hats. We are living in a world where we let the bad guy draw first and then we try to shoot the gun out of their hand. I'm sorry, but when Black Bart comes to town, you shoot first and you shoot him in the back.

Comments? Discussion?

[Racewriter]

Agreed, crispy. Especially the part about applying our normal laws of crime and punishment. Death does not scare these animals - that was proven yesterday. I doubt that losing their families would, either. Perhaps the knowledge that, if they commit an act against the United States or its citizens, that THEIR ENTIRE SOCIETY will be ERADICATED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH might do it. People talk about the "misery" that these people live in. I could give a squat what they do to each other. Just keep it over there. If not, the US is going to own one very large, very depopulated, oil field. JMO.

Bottom line - people talk about what a "surprise attack" this was. BS. Bin Laden tried to bring down the WTC years ago and failed. We knew he did it, and we know that he has coordinated other attacks on American targets, and that he threatened attacks three weeks ago. We also know that Afghanistan harbors this mass murderer, and sponsors his terrorist training camps.

Finally, we ALLOWED the hijackers into the country. Does it sound like we have the stomach for a war on terrorism???

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: Racewriter ]

[mattndallas]

1. Make list of 100 most wanted known terrorists with last known residence or location.

2. Notify countries that harbor these 100 most wanted that THEY have 72 hours to locate and apprehend.

3. Any country not "providing" the criminals known, or even suspected, to be harbored in their country, will have war formally declared on them by the US (and then the rest of allies).

4. Carpet (not tactical) bombing begins in one week (non-nukes).

Don't isolate this to just the individuals responsible for this incident. This is an open call to all nations who object to terrorism to join the effort to "clean the whole house".

[Lucky161]

I am sad to see so many people willing to give up what actually makes this country so great, in order to exact the proper amount of revenge. People that claim to be Christians making very unChristian-like statements. Smart people offering illogical solutions that may in fact offer some short term relief but have almost no chance of getting the desired results.
Bin Laden is revered about as much as any person can be in the Arab world. There is probably only one thing that could make him more popular and that is to make him a martyr. And getting rid of him will just spawn many more like him. Perhaps someone even more diabolical than him. People like Arafat, Kadafi and Castro have come out in strong sympathy with us, not against us. And each of them have been on the receiving end of much hatred from our country. No one could be any worse than them, we were told. But it seems that someone was and someone always will be. If we kill him and I am not even saying that we shouldn't, those people won't just go wandering off into the desert, not knowing what to do. They will instead be galvanized even more, just like we are over here. Someone earlier suggested that we stop the cycle of violence, but then went on to state that we should use all the force that we can. In other words they would like the cycle of violence to end, but not until we have an opportunity to retaliate. And I am not saying we shouldn't retaliate either, but we should be measured in our response that it gets us the best that we can get.
What will stop the terrorism? Unfortunately, I don't think anything will completely stop it as we can probably never please everyone. And there is no doubt in my mind that some of these people are diabolical in nature. But what if we really offered something in return. What if we quit backing madmen like the shah of Iran who murdered thousands of his countrymen. Remember how shocked we were that they didn't like us? After all we spent millions and maybe billions proping up his regime? Perhaps it was because he used our support to oppress them and slaughter them.
I am not condoning what was done here in anyway, but I am saying that unless and until we are willing to actually treat these people better than we have in the past, we will always be in danger of this type of horrible suffering. If Israel needs defending, let's defend them. But if Israel commits terrorist acts themselves, then we must stand up to them and tell the world that we are not aiding and abetting terrorism ourselves. Is this the greatest country in the world. Sure it is, but that doesn't mean we are perfect and we should not pretend that our way is the only way.

[OW fan in OK]

FYI, US policy used to be we wouldnt use chemical or nuke first. We had to wait for someone to use it on us first.

5 or 6 years ago the policy was changed to we WILL NOT use chem or nuke, period. (Pesident can order it's use but better be darned good reason)

Back to the topic.... it would be nice to have the "100" most wanted, it would be nice to rid the world of the crazy nuts. But, it cant be that way. It conflicts with rights, freedoms, and other countries views and opinions. It would unite crazy nations, and we would have individual crazy nuts doing frequent car bombs, etc.

Have to limit it to those involved with yesterdays air attacks.

[crispy]

Originally posted by OW fan in OK:
<STRONG>Back to the topic.... it would be nice to have the "100" most wanted, it would be nice to rid the world of the crazy nuts. But, it cant be that way. It conflicts with rights, freedoms, and other countries views and opinions. It would unite crazy nations, and we would have individual crazy nuts doing frequent car bombs, etc.

Have to limit it to those involved with yesterdays air attacks.</STRONG>

That's my point. If you are of this opinion, then we really aren't fighting "a war" on anything. We AREN'T committed to a war are we?

In a war, all targets are fair game. If you declare war on terrorists, then all terrorists are fair game.

So we are left with reacting and punishing right? OK then people of America, EXPECT more of the same. Even if we get better at stopping them in the act, some will get through.

[nitrofan]

the smart thing to do is to protect ourselves better , beef up intelligence ops to keep more eyes on these dogs, and TURN THE OTHER CHEEK.

the israeli's have been fighting back for years.

and they can't go out for pizza without a bomb going off.

the more the fight, the more the terrorists retaliate.

[KnockOff]

Contract it out to a coalition of the Mossad and the Bulgarian secret police who are outta work and looking for a steady paycheck.

[jkg]

Originally posted by nitrofan:
<STRONG>the smart thing to do is to protect ourselves better , beef up intelligence ops to keep more eyes on these dogs, and TURN THE OTHER CHEEK.

the israeli's have been fighting back for years.

and they can't go out for pizza without a bomb going off.

the more the fight, the more the terrorists retaliate.</STRONG>

Utterly incorrect and nonsense. The attacks on Israel would be far worse if there were no retribution. A far greater response is required to slow the terrorism, something the US has persuaded Israel from doing in the past. That will change now. Bullies LOVE to pick on people that won't fight back.

Turn the other cheek? I'd rather do something else than just lay back, spread our legs, and let them have their way with us, and fortunately about 90% of Americans including the President agree.

[nitrofan]

Bullies LOVE to pick on people that
won't fight back.

you're right.

I just don't see why retribution matters to 'people' who don't care if they live or die.