Silver Crown and Indycar

[Outlaw]

In one of the latest issues of Speed Sport someone wrote a column talking about the fact that JJ Yelly could not get a ride in the IRL and that these guys just did not get a chance. His solution was to make Silver Crown races IndyCar points races. I began thinking about this and decided to draw up a schedule to see what it would look like.

My schedule is loosely based on dates from this year but they could be transferred to next year. It would start in March and run through October. It also assumes that CART is gone. And finally since I just drove up Pikes Peak this last weekend I was blown away by the mountain and that road. Racing up that mountain has got to be the biggest thrill and scariest thing in racing all at the same time so I have added it to my schedule.

Track Track Size type Series
Phoenix Intl Raceway 1 mi OV IndyCar
Phoenix Intl Raceway 1 mi OV Silver Crown
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca 2.2 mi RC IndyCar
Tulsa Fairgrounds Speedway 0.75 mi Dirt Silver Crown
Homestead-Miami Speedway 1.5 mi OV IndyCar
Twin Ring Motegi 1.5 mi OV IndyCar
Streets of Long Beach 2 mi ST IndyCar
Indianapolis Raceway Park 0.686 mi OV Silver Crown
Indiana State Fairgrounds 1 mi Dirt Silver Crown
Indianapolis Motor Speedway 2.5 mi OV IndyCar
Texas Motor Speedway 1.5 mi OV IndyCar
Pikes Peak Hill Climb 12.42 mi Dirt RC Indycar
Pikes Peak Int Raceway 1 mi OV Silver Crown
Pikes Peak Int Raceway 1 mi OV IndyCar
Portland Int Raceway 2 mi RC IndyCar
Richmond Int Raceway 0.75 mi OV IndyCar
Richmond Int Raceway 0.75 mi OV Silver Crown
Burke Lakefront Airport 2.1 mi ST IndyCar
Terre Haute Action Track 0.5 mi Dirt Silver Crown
Knoxville Raceway 0.5 mi Dirt Silver Crown
Nashville Superspeedway 1.33 mi OV IndyCar
Michigan Intl Speedway 2 mi OV IndyCar
The Milwaukee Mile 1 mi OV IndyCar
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course 2.3 mi RC IndyCar
Illinois State Fairgrounds 1 mi Dirt Silver Crown
Kentucky Speedway 1.5 mi OV IndyCar
Nazareth Speedway 1 mi OV IndyCar
Nazareth Speedway 1 mi OV Silver Crown
Kansas Speedway 1.5 mi OV IndyCar
Gateway Intl Raceway 1.25 mi OV IndyCar
Road America 4 mi RC IndyCar
California Speedway 2 mi OV IndyCar
DuQuoin State Fairgrounds 1 mi Dirt Silver Crown
Chicagoland Speedway 1.5 mi OV IndyCar
New York State Fairgrounds 1 mi Dirt Silver Crown
Eldora Speedway .5 mi Dirt Silver Crown
Texas Motor Speedway 1.5 mi OV IndyCar


Can anyone deny that if a driver won a Championship driving all of these races that he is one of the best drivers in the world. 30 Oval races, 8 of those ovals are dirt, 13 are in a Silver Crown Car and 17 in an IndyCar. 4 Road Courses 2 Street Courses and 1 hill climb.

Go ahead and rip it apart because I know it is just a pipe dream but I can not think of another series in the world that has this kind of diversity.

Outlaw

[roach]

Outlaw:

Pike's Peak used to be part of the "Championship Trail" back in the USAC days.

Official Event Schedule of the USAC National Championship Series for the year 1967.

jcr

[Outlaw]

Originally posted by jcroche
Outlaw:

Pike's Peak used to be part of the "Championship Trail" back in the USAC days.

Official Event Schedule of the USAC National Championship Series for the year 1967.

jcr

Yes, I knew that. That is why I felt comfortable adding it to my schedule.

Outlaw

[Doc Austin]

Why don't we make monster trucks part of the schedule? You know, the monster trucks guy never get a chance either.

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by Outlaw
In one of the latest issues of Speed Sport someone wrote a column talking about the fact that JJ Yelly could not get a ride in the IRL and that these guys just did not get a chance. His solution was to make Silver Crown races IndyCar points races. I began thinking about this and decided to draw up a schedule to see what it would look like.

I'm all for any SC races that can meet the criteria of the rest of the IRL races.

We know that the IRL isn't going to go run anywhere that won't draw 30K people.

We also know the purse for each IRL race is, what, $1 million?

[Lucky161]

I've heard of a plan similar to this one before.
Oh well, just put me down as strongly in favor of it!

[BSJracing]

You could race in my front lawn, that would give the lawnmower racers a chance.(besides, I'm tired of mowing)

[STAND E]

I think this idea is worthy of being on the table as a serious option. By all means we should feel free to express our wishes for what we'd like to see in racing. (My idea was posted as the ROAR series).

If putting Silver Crown right into the series iis too much to do, another option would be to guarantee the top Silver Crown points finishers rides in IndyCar the following year. That at least makes Silver Crown more important and at the same time ties IndyCar closer to the fans at the short tracks around the country.

[Outlaw]

Originally posted by Doc Austin
Why don't we make monster trucks part of the schedule? You know, the monster trucks guy never get a chance either.

Show me where monster trucks are tied to Indy Cars. I can show all kinds of history behind Silver Crown cars and Indy.

Outlaw

[Outlaw]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
I'm all for any SC races that can meet the criteria of the rest of the IRL races.

We know that the IRL isn't going to go run anywhere that won't draw 30K people.

We also know the purse for each IRL race is, what, $1 million?

They would not be IndyCar races. They would be Silver Crown races. This means that Helio and Gil and even Tora would have to strap in at Knoxville, Eldora and IRP if they wanted to win the championship. It also means that an owner may give Jay Drake and JJ Yelly a ride in their Indy Cars if they wanted to win the championship.

Some would run for the championship some would not. Some would run just Indy Cars and some would run just Silver Crown. Basically it would return it to where it came from.

Outlaw

[mnkywrch]

Wait - you said you wanted to make SC races into Indycar races. If you want to make them Indycar races, why not hold them to the same standards as Indycar races? Not just purse & stands - the whole nine yards. Upgrade the fences, the walls, get a chopper on sight, IRL safety crew...

The devil's advocate is so much fun...

If you want to return things to how they were, I'd suggest a combination of 1/3 ovals, 1/3 natural terrain road courses, and 1/3 street circuits. Seems that was a combination that was well-received by the public at large. Sure, some oval only fans didn't like it, but when it was drawing double what the current "oval only" format is drawing, and it was also drawing more than "the way things were" in the 70's, it should be considered as an option.

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by Outlaw
Show me where monster trucks are tied to Indy Cars. I can show all kinds of history behind Silver Crown cars and Indy.

Outlaw

Not in modern times. I don't care about the stone age.

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by BSJracing
You could race in my front lawn, that would give the lawnmower racers a chance.(besides, I'm tired of mowing)

No, no!!! We could race tractors in some corn field in Iowa!!! What a great......What? They already do that? Nevermind.

[FCYTravis]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
If you want to return things to how they were, I'd suggest a combination of 1/3 ovals, 1/3 natural terrain road courses, and 1/3 street circuits.

****, what a concept... how novel... do you think it would work?

Road courses -
Road America
Road Atlanta
Mid-Ohio
Laguna Seca
Portland
Mexico City
Brands Hatch

Ovals -
Indianapolis
Phoenix
Michigan
California
Nazareth
Milwaukee
Texas
Lausitzring

Street races -
Long Beach
Montreal
Vancouver
Toronto
St. Petersburg
Surfers Paradise
Cleveland Burke Lakefront Airport

[mnkywrch]

There's no reason to leave North America. Things have to be fixed here first.

Ovals:
Phoenix
Indy
Fontana
Michigan
Kansas
Chicago
Texas
Milwaukee
Pikes Peak (only because the Denver street circuit is horrid)

Road:
Road America
Mid-Ohio
Road Atlanta
Portland
Laguna Seca
Mexico City
Monterrey

Street:
Long Beach
Toronto
Vancouver
Miami (if they can come up with a proper layout; if not, Homestead)

[STAND E]

I wonder if any street races should be in the biggest US cities (that also don't have ovals). How about:

Street:
NYC/Long Island
Chicago (lakefront)
New Orleans (Mardis Gras)
LA
Houston
Denver
St. Petersburg

Also, what about a road race at Sebring?

[Lucky161]

See Outlaw, your radical idea is already going to cost us 4 fans! What were you thinking?

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by Lucky161
See Outlaw, your radical idea is already going to cost us 4 fans! What were you thinking?

Compare that to the radical idea of an all-ovals series that cost us 50% of the fans.

[Lucky161]

"Compare that to the radical idea of an all-ovals series that cost us 50% of the fans."

Of course you are welcome to your opinion. Even if it's wrong. Even if you can't prove it and even if you use it to highjack outlaws thread.

[mnkywrch]

Originally posted by Lucky161
Of course you are welcome to your opinion. Even if it's wrong. Even if you can't prove it and even if you use it to highjack outlaws thread.

K, let's use some facts then:

What were the ratings in 1995?
What were the ratings in 2003?

I don't think this is an outlaws thread, it's a thread to send open wheel racing further down the "all-ovals" path.

I don't think it's the right way to look at it.

I think open wheel should head back down the path of mixing ovals and road courses that it ran during its period of commercial success, as it were in comparison to these days.

It's like having the recipe for Coca-Cola in your back pocket, but insisting that people really want New Coke.

[FCYTravis]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
There's no reason to leave North America. Things have to be fixed here first.

I will concede you that point, but I don't think there's any reason to drop Surfers Paradise either. It's successful and the racing's pretty good for a street course (except when a monsoon hits in the middle of a drought and the steward is a circus clown...)

Or Montreal, which got left off your list.

Agreed that Denver and Miami street circuits are horrid - but not sure that Pikes Peak or Homestead offer any improvement.

I left off the Monterrey road course because it's just a huge steaming pile. Has there been a contested pass at that track in recorded history?

I left off Cleveland because I'm a moron (edited to add)

[mnkywrch]

I forgot Cleveland too. Doh!

I'll always take a permanent circuit - oval or road course - over a crummy street circuit. Miami had a good street circuit for a while, and I'd drop Homestead for that.... but I'll still take an oval over a crummy street circuit. That's just me.

Surfer's? Big money off-season points race. How about we call it the Australian Super Prix?

I just think it's time to circle the wagons a little. Stick to NAFTA. CART didn't expan overseas until they were strong enough - and neither series is strong enough, if you ask me.

I'm sure you'd still have to go to Motegi, too - but I wish they wouldn't.

Montreal? I guess two trips up north is enough for me. It's also new enough, unlike Vancouver & Toronto...

[FCYTravis]

Originally posted by mnkywrch
I'll always take a permanent circuit - oval or road course - over a crummy street circuit. That's just me.

That's me, too - but I think the Homestead oval is crummy too.

Q: Which is better, a crummy street race or a crummy permanent circuit race?

A: Neither, kill 'em both.

Neither the Homestead oval nor the Miami street circuit meet my standards. If I had my druthers, I'd run Sebring instead.

Of course, if I had my druthers I'd also run the GP Circuit at Brands Hatch instead of the gawdawful Indy Circuit.

But I'm not CART CEO... yet