Thought it would be a good idea to run Cleveland and Milwaukee at night?
How many millions did those lights eat up? How many extra seats did they sell? How many more viewers watched on tv?
I suspect that if anything, the tv numbers went down for a tape-delayed race. And there is no way they sold enough extra seats to pay for the electricity, never mind what the contractor charged them.
And then they wonder why they don't have the cash for 2004?
I'm from a place called the internet. Nothing disturbs me.
Originally posted by debdrake
Thought it would be a good idea to run Cleveland and Milwaukee at night?
How many millions did those lights eat up? How many extra seats did they sell? How many more viewers watched on tv?
I suspect that if anything, the tv numbers went down for a tape-delayed race. And there is no way they sold enough extra seats to pay for the electricity, never mind what the contractor charged them.
And then they wonder why they don't have the cash for 2004?
Ah, now there's a reasoned response.Originally posted by FCYTravis
Proud to be a complainer.
Musta been TravisOriginally posted by FCYTravis
Sorry couldn't resist...
Originally posted by FCYTravis
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
This is fallacious, the power for the lights came from the rotary motion of the tyres against a contact strip across the start-finish line.Originally posted by debdrake
And there is no way they sold enough extra seats to pay for the electricity, never mind what the contractor charged them.
If you looked very carefully, every time someone retired the lights dimmed a little, as if in mourning for the lost car, but in truth there was less juice as fewer wheels passed over the contact strip.
"An emphasis was placed on drivers with road racing backgrounds which meant drivers from open wheel, oval track racing were at a disadvantage. That led Tony George to create the IRL." -Indy Review 1996
Now that's some good info!Originally posted by ensign14
This is fallacious, the power for the lights came from the rotary motion of the tyres against a contact strip across the start-finish line.
If you looked very carefully, every time someone retired the lights dimmed a little, as if in mourning for the lost car, but in truth there was less juice as fewer wheels passed over the contact strip.
It was me!Originally posted by debdrake
Thought it would be a good idea to run Cleveland and Milwaukee at night?
How many millions did those lights eat up? How many extra seats did they sell? How many more viewers watched on tv?
I suspect that if anything, the tv numbers went down for a tape-delayed race. And there is no way they sold enough extra seats to pay for the electricity, never mind what the contractor charged them.
And then they wonder why they don't have the cash for 2004?
It was all my idea. Mine alone, no one else's, just ME!!!!!
At first Mr. Pook didn't want to do it, but I just wouldn't let it die.
I called him day and night, spammed his email account, slept on his front doorstep.
I just would not take "No" for an answer.
And now look at what I have wraught!!
I don't know if I can go on much longer.
Oh, the humanity.
Must have been the same guy that invested close to $1 million in improvements at Brands Hatch. That money goes up in smoke as the track is going to get sold to a real estate development firm and there won't be any more CART races there.Originally posted by debdrake
Thought it would be a good idea to run Cleveland and Milwaukee at night?
How many millions did those lights eat up? How many extra seats did they sell? How many more viewers watched on tv?
I suspect that if anything, the tv numbers went down for a tape-delayed race. And there is no way they sold enough extra seats to pay for the electricity, never mind what the contractor charged them.
And then they wonder why they don't have the cash for 2004?
I was just idiot enough to enjoy those events, Milwaukee live (brrrrr)and Cleveland tape delayed. Both drew better at the gate than previous years.
Speaking of idiots, how many can defend Indy's fall in popularity?
Lottsa idiocy to go around in both CART and the IRL lately...
I don't believe that's totally true. My understanding is that Milwaukee, even with lights, was lower than the previous year and much lower than a few years ago. Cleveland claimed an increase of less than 1,000 over the prior year and, again, that was much lower than a couple years ago.I was just idiot enough to enjoy those events, Milwaukee live (brrrrr)and Cleveland tape delayed. Both drew better at the gate than previous years.
Regardless, no one can argue that the lights were cost-effective, especially when CART needed to watch their cash flow if they were going to have enough money to run next year.
You keep an eye on the cash flow Wilke, I'll be watching the races.
Gonna be at Michigan this week racefan?
Kind of a long drive for me. I will also say that attending a race in person doesn't neccessarily make one a better or more committed fan. I never saw the Beatles in concert, never heard them live on the radio or TV. I did, however, buy every single album they ever released and wore out copies of many. I spent hours listening in my room, went to their movies, groped a young breast or two while dancing to their songs. Some place, some where there are fans that will tell you that the only 'real' Beatles fans are those that saw them live in the old Cavern before the made it big, those that went to see them in Hamburg. I would disagree. Those 4 young men were very important parts of my life and meant as much to me as anyone else.
I'll set aside a couple of hours this weekend and watch the race.
Hey Jim, did your opinion of the Beatles diminish when George owned part of an F1 team in the 70s? I guess he didn't know what Indy (or oval track racing) means.
I saw the Beatles in the mid 60's at the Coliseum. I was a boy scout, and our job was to venture into the screaming crowd, 6 at a time, and carry women who had fainted out into the concourse to cots they had set up for just such a purpose.
Didn't hear any music. Just screaming. And they only played for less than an hour.
But I got a badge.
I wasn't really a Beatles fan until they stayed at the Speedway Motel during their visit to Indianapolis....Originally posted by rfellows
Hey Jim, did your opinion of the Beatles diminish when George owned part of an F1 team in the 70s? I guess he didn't know what Indy (or oval track racing) means.
I'm glad somebody gets it. I don't know how much those extra 1000 fans paid for their tickets, but I'd bet that it's nowhere close to what CART paid for the lights. It's not even as if that was a long term investment - the lights came back down as soon as the race was over.Originally posted by Jim Wilke
I don't believe that's totally true. My understanding is that Milwaukee, even with lights, was lower than the previous year and much lower than a few years ago. Cleveland claimed an increase of less than 1,000 over the prior year and, again, that was much lower than a couple years ago.
Regardless, no one can argue that the lights were cost-effective, especially when CART needed to watch their cash flow if they were going to have enough money to run next year.
That's kinda like not having enough money for the rent, but going out and buying a fancy new plasma tv just to make the apartment look better...
Pookie did it his way!!!Originally posted by debdrake
I'm glad somebody gets it. I don't know how much those extra 1000 fans paid for their tickets, but I'd bet that it's nowhere close to what CART paid for the lights. It's not even as if that was a long term investment - the lights came back down as soon as the race was over.
That's kinda like not having enough money for the rent, but going out and buying a fancy new plasma tv just to make the apartment look better...
"The older I get, the faster I used to be!"
what's the wink for Jimmy ...Originally posted by Jim Wilke: I wasn't really a Beatles fan until they stayed at the Speedway Motel during their visit to Indianapolis....
"That's kinda like not having enough money for the rent, but going out and buying a fancy new plasma tv just to make the apartment look better... "
Are you saying I shouldn't have done that?
Some people will do nearly anything in order to be able to not do anything.
Was just another attempt to copy what the IRL had done. They must have been watching the IRL night races.
Copying the IRL?
Nah, just another copy of the Nutley Veladrome midget races.
Just like every other night race ever ran since the depression.
what idiot started this whine fest?
Monkey see, monkey do.Originally posted by debdrake
So what idiot thought it would be a good idea to run Cleveland and Milwaukee at night?
Aw, Deb, kwitcherbeetchin. They could have been solar-powered lights, you know...
Hey Railbird
That seems to be one of C^RT's (Pook's) biggest problems these days. He just enjoys the racing and ignores the finance. An as we shall see soon, without the finace there is no racing.
I agree 100% with Jim and Deb. As I have stated many times before. When restucturing, a company does not expand into new markets and spend money on razzel dazzel. They retract, discard their under performers, promot their successes.
Some C^RT fans say Pook is only playing the hand that was dealt him. Yes that's true, but it doesn't have to be played in the manor that Pook is playing it.
During bad finacial times, C^RT has started new races in Miami, Denver, St. Pete, Mexico City, Brands Hatch, and re started the German race. All of these races required a large startup expense. Besides Mexico City, (and I'm not sure about it) none of these races has come even close to a profit. The races in Europe this year cost C^RT 4 million dollars. To top that off Pook decided to spend another million or two on lights at Cleveland and Milwaulkee. This is at the same time that he is spending 15 million on an ESP program and another 30 million in extra team incentives. Now Pook has worked out a plan for 2004 to spend more money on CBS for 10 races. Money he does not have.
Enjoy the racing while it lasts, because by ignoring the finacal side of things Pook has spent C^RT to death.
P.S. Railbird there is nothing wrong with this thread and the discussion of the business side of racing, after all this is the "Racing Biz" forum.
Yeah, 'bird, this is where mnkywrch put us, so we're here.
As I've posted elsewhere, I believe the recent financial guidance update was partly to do with C^RT taking a bath in Cleveland. They announced 112,000 over three days. They have never built over 30,000 seats in Cleveland. Lights didn't do it. But that $500-750,000 investment was a drop in the bucket to the rest of the expenditures to allow big boys play with expensive toys with stockholder money.
You're on the right track:Originally posted by indycool
As I've posted elsewhere, I believe the recent financial guidance update was partly to do with C^RT taking a bath in Cleveland.
Of course, they went through and revised every revenue source down and all the losses to the high side. Net result was even more losses than they were forecasting just a month prior.....and it is this timing that is annoying Mr. Vaninni. As he said, they didn't issue any quidances for a year, and then they issue a bad one and a month later follow it up with one that was even worse.We have conducted four CART-promoted events so far in 2003: Brands Hatch, England, Eurospeedway Lausitz, Germany, Portland, Oregon and Cleveland, Ohio. Based on its experience to date and the forecast for the two remaining CART- promoted events, the company believes the losses from all its self-promoted events will be in the upper range of its previous guidance of $4.8 to $7.8 million for 2003.
Yeah, 'bird, this is where mnkywrch put us, so we're here.
P.S. Railbird there is nothing wrong with this thread and the discussion of the business side of racing, after all this is the "Racing Biz" forum.
Good Lord boys, for cocksure fans of the "greatest racing on earth" you sure are touchy...
I was just making a smart azz remark about throwing the "idiot" tag around by the thread starter.
Let's say you owned a business and one of your employees spent $1,000 each to attract new customers who spent $50 a piece. What would you call him?
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