Indy 500 still reigns supreme @ IMS

**Truth Detector** · 08-01-2003 07:04 AM

Indianapolis Economic Impact:

Indy 500: $336,600,000

BY400: $219,500,000

USGP: $170,800,000

Remember that the next time you read an article claiming the BY400 is bigger than the Indy 500.

**Disciple** · 08-01-2003 07:07 AM

Perhaps the assorted blithering idiots with access to column or air space should keep that in mind prior to their next stupidity rant.

**Ganassifan** · 08-01-2003 07:09 AM

Where did you get this info? I am not questioning its' validity, I am just curious? And how old?

Do you think that the additional income for the 500 might be due to a three week event vs. a three day event?

**Truth Detector** · 08-01-2003 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Ganassifan
Where did you get this info? I am not questioning its' validity, I am just curious? And how old?

Front page Indianapolis Star 8/1/03

Do you think that the additional income for the 500 might be due to a three week event vs. a three day event?

No doubt that's part of it.

**coachb8t** · 08-01-2003 04:23 PM

That comes up to an estimated $726,900,000 of positives the Indianapolis Motor Speedway brings to the city of Indianapolis and yet for some reason the Star and others have nothing but disdain for the Hulman-George Family. I admire Tony George his ability to not lash back at the local media. I know if it were me, I would have a hard time letting the star into the track, let alone sell their papers inside it.

**indyracefan** · 08-01-2003 04:24 PM

...amazingly quiet.

**indysteve** · 08-01-2003 05:27 PM

Here's a link to the article. Look in the "Sports Bucks" box under the photo.

Fans of big 3 races as colorful as drivers

**Indy Red** · 08-01-2003 05:55 PM

I know this is a little dated but I found it interesting anyway:

TOP 10 PROFESSIONAL SPORTS EVENTS IN AMERICA - 2000

Economic Event Location Impact *

Indianapolis 500 Indianapolis Motor Speedway $336.6 million Indianapolis, Ind.

Daytona 500 Daytona International Speedway $240 million Daytona Beach, Fla.

Brickyard 400 Indianapolis Motor Speedway $219.5 million Indianapolis, Ind.

Super Bowl XXXIV Georgia Dome $215 million Atlanta, Ga.

United States Indianapolis Motor Speedway $170.8 million Grand Prix Indianapolis, Ind.

DIRECTV 500 Texas Motor Speedway $165.2 million Fort Worth, Texas

Goracing.com 500 Bristol Motor Speedway $119.6 million Bristol, Tenn.

Food City 500 Bristol Motor Speedway $80.5 million Bristol, Tenn.

Kentucky Derby Churchill Downs $60 million Louisville, Ky.

Winston 500 Talladega Superspeedway $42.4 million Talladega, Ala.

One reason for the Indianapolis 500's immense economic impact is its status
as the world's largest attended single-day sporting event, attracting an
estimated Race Day crowd of 400,000 spectators. The Brickyard and SAP United
States Grand Prix are second and third in this category, respectively.
Including practice and qualifying days, more than a million race fans walk
through the Speedway's gates annually.

State and local governments receive significant revenues from the three
races. The State of Indiana receives more than $25 million and local
governments almost $10 million annually. Of those amounts, the Formula One
race will be responsible for adding $6 million to state coffers and $2.6
million to units of government in Marion County, according to the study.
"These gains for the local economy and for governments in Indiana from the
Formula One race, the Indianapolis 500 and the Brickyard 400 are even more
significant since none of the costs for the building of new facilities at
the Speedway requires public investments," Rosentraub said. "As a result,
all of the economic benefits identified in this analysis are real
increments, resulting in no opportunity costs or other costs for the state
of Indiana, local governments or taxpayers."

In addition, the capital construction project undertaken by IMS from
1998-2000 to both prepare for the Formula One event and to generally upgrade
the track's facilities added $80.9 million to the regional economy. This was
a one-time, non-recurring investment.

In the study, Rosentraub adjusted figures to remove the spending by
residents of the region who would attend other recreational events in the
region if the races were not held.

Rosentraub is a nationally recognized expert on the economics and politics
of professional sports teams and their relationships with cities, the
financing of sports facilities, the financing, organization and delivery of
urban services, and economic development issues.

**oldtimer** · 08-01-2003 06:16 PM

To even be having this argument is a disgrace, and an open admission that the Indy 500 is less than it was before 1994.

I have always been a fan of THE race at Indy, and I hate being a fan of ONE OF THE races.

It's just a pitiful situation, and I refuse to attend or acknowledge the other races. IPS junk was the final straw for me. I'll always attend the 500, but it isn't as special as it used to be (and I wouldn't be caught dead at the IPS race).

Tony is going to have to grub his money from someone else.

**Eric** · 08-01-2003 06:37 PM

But its the money from the other two races financing the IRL.

**Truth Detector** · 08-01-2003 09:58 PM

oldtimer, you sound like you need more fiber in your diet.

**hdolan** · 08-01-2003 11:29 PM

The facts do not surprise me...I would expect this to continue for a while...unfortunately we are now in the era of TV...in the long run whatever garners the greater ratings numbers will have the largest econonmic impact, not to the area, but to the Speedway...

Some here at times chide me for looking backwards, but, to overlook the value of TV ratings in this day and age is a huge mistake...one I'm sure that TG is aware of...

BTW: The Derby is about 2 minutes in length...that comes out to 30 mil per minute...pretty good...

**elio** · 08-02-2003 07:05 AM

"Tony George his ability to not lash back at the local media. I know if it were me, I would have a hard time letting the star into the track, let alone sell their papers inside it."

Tony knows better, the media makes the news..

**BackHomeMBD** · 08-02-2003 08:39 AM

You mean there is another race at IMS besides the Indy 500? When did this start?...LOL!!!!

**Truth Detector** · 08-02-2003 09:04 AM

"to overlook the value of TV ratings in this day and age is a huge mistake"

TV ratings have virtually no impact on the local economy.

**timinglights** · 08-02-2003 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Truth Detector

Remember that the next time you read an article claiming the BY400 is bigger than the Indy 500.

But more Americans will watch the BY400 than the Indy 500.

Sad, but true.

And the BY400 is recognized by many as the biggest catalyst in bringing NASCAR to national prominence.

Really sad, but just as true.

I wonder if those figures will hold true this year, seeing that the 500 failed to sell all available seats?

**timinglights** · 08-02-2003 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Truth Detector

TV ratings have virtually no impact on the local economy.

Very true.

And the impact on local economy has little to do with how much more popular the BY 400 is with American viewers.

Or in terms of income to the Speedway.

**timinglights** · 08-02-2003 10:09 AM

Originally posted by hdolan
in the long run whatever garners the greater ratings numbers will have the largest econonmic impact, not to the area, but to the Speedway...

Especially when one set of numbers is rising annually while the otheer set is steadily declining.

**220mph** · 08-02-2003 11:42 AM

Originally posted by timinglights
But more Americans will watch the BY400 than the Indy 500.

Sad, but true.

And the BY400 is recognized by many as the biggest catalyst in bringing NASCAR to national prominence.

Really sad, but just as true.

I wonder if those figures will hold true this year, seeing that the 500 failed to sell all available seats?

I wonder if the Brickyard numbers will hold true since they had seats available as well?

The Brickyard the biggest catalyst to NASCAR's national prominence? You'd have us believe that no one new NASCAR existed, that there was no growth in its decades long existence?

Regardless, how is having the Brickyard, which generates huge gobs of cash profits, in any way, shape or form a bad business decision?

Your whining is getting old. It is clear you believe Tony George is the anti-christ and can do nothing right. There are places where you would be most welcome. Oh, wait, you say you are already a member there?

**mnkywrch** · 08-02-2003 11:54 AM

Originally posted by 220mph
Regardless, how is having the Brickyard, which generates huge gobs of cash profits, in any way, shape or form a bad business decision?

Well, from the perspective of money, it's not.

From the much harder to quantify perspective of "devaluing" a ticket to the Indianapolis 500, I would say it has been a bad business decision.

Now people can choose between the race with the tradition (Indy 500) or the one in which they know the competitors (Brickyard 400).

Seems to me they're choosing the latter. Sure, you get the money, but at the cost of prestige to your biggest race.

That's not even throwing the F1 race in the mix - if people from overseas want to come to Indy and see a race, they can choose from seeing a form of motorsport they're likely familar with - F1 - or the Indy 500.

Adding the Brickyard 400 by itself wasn't a bad move. If Tony had added the Brickyard and NOT thrown open wheel into chaos at roughly the same time, I doubt we would be having this discussion.

**220mph** · 08-02-2003 12:08 PM

There are business decisions and rcing decisions. Without good business decisions there are no racing decisions to be made . . .

See CART

**dog-ring** · 08-02-2003 01:24 PM

Originally posted by timinglights
But more Americans will watch the BY400 than the Indy 500.

Sad, but true.

And the BY400 is recognized by many as the biggest catalyst in bringing NASCAR to national prominence.

Really sad, but just as true.

I wonder if those figures will hold true this year, seeing that the 500 failed to sell all available seats?

Do you know how many more people watch the Indy 500 worldwide than the Daytona 500? Thought not.....

The BY 400 was the biggest catalyst in bringing Nascar to national prominence? pffffftttttttt The Daytona 500 along with 30 some odd races a year and the promotion by ESPN is what brought Nascar to National prominence.......along with a little ole fight......

The 500 didn't sell all available seats? No they didn't........but neither did the Brickyard........and there were more seats available for the 500 than the 400.

**Truth Detector** · 08-02-2003 03:59 PM

"Now people can choose between the race with the tradition (Indy 500) or the one in which they know the competitors (Brickyard 400).

Seems to me they're choosing the latter."

Based on what?

There were thousands more tickets sold for Indy than there will be for the BY.

**mnkywrch** · 08-02-2003 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Truth Detector
Based on what?

There were thousands more tickets sold for Indy than there will be for the BY.

Sure, and how many butts were in the seats yesterday and today?

I would be willing to wager more people went to IMS in the last two days than the entire month of May (sans Race Day).

You ever seen where Indianapolis rates among cities in terms of NASCAR interest? Try #3.

Tony's tripled the supply of tickets to events at IMS. Has he tripled the demand? I don't think he has.

**indycoolest** · 08-02-2003 04:46 PM

The fact that the economic impact figures as reported by Truth Detector from the August 1, 2003 Indy Star are identical to those of Indy Red's "Top 10 Professional Sports Events in America - 2000" would seem to indicate that the Indy Star is publishing 3-year old figures. If so, one wonders why?

Perhaps they are the most recent figures available? Perhaps the Indy Star reporter is lazy? Perhaps the figures are no longer valid and the BY400 has surpassed the Indy 500 in economic impact?

If perchance it is the latter, why might the Indy Star misrepresent the current situation? Well, if you were the Indianapolis city fathers and the two biggest events impacting the local economy were controlled by different groups, which would you prefer to deal with: the local speedway management or the ISC group in Daytona Beach, FL? The more important the "outsiders" become, the more weight they can throw around in local politics.

**BackHomeMBD** · 08-02-2003 06:35 PM

Originally posted by mnkywrch
Sure, and how many butts were in the seats yesterday and today?

I would be willing to wager more people went to IMS in the last two days than the entire month of May (sans Race Day).

You ever seen where Indianapolis rates among cities in terms of NASCAR interest? Try #3.

Tony's tripled the supply of tickets to events at IMS. Has he tripled the demand? I don't think he has.

I'll take that wager.......

**timinglights** · 08-03-2003 09:37 AM

Originally posted by dog-ring
Do you know how many more people watch the Indy 500 worldwide than the Daytona 500? Thought not.....

"But more Americans will watch the BY400 than the Indy 500. "

Not that that has anything to do with my statement, but why don't you enlighten us all with the actual numbers? Or can you?

The BY 400 was the biggest catalyst in bringing Nascar to national prominence? pffffftttttttt The Daytona 500 along with 30 some odd races a year and the promotion by ESPN is what brought Nascar to National prominence.......along with a little ole fight......

"And the BY400 is recognized by many as the biggest catalyst in bringing NASCAR to national prominence."

Just read the newspapers from earlier this weekend. I've seen it mentioned in at least a half-dozen articles. Here's a sample: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryn...rts/6445892.htm

The 500 didn't sell all available seats? No they didn't........but neither did the Brickyard........and there were more seats available for the 500 than the 400.

Has the BY400 ever sold all available seats? Has the 500?

**timinglights** · 08-03-2003 09:52 AM

Originally posted by 220mph
I wonder if the Brickyard numbers will hold true since they had seats available as well?

The numbers brought up in this thread are from 2000. They don't represent the 500's inability to sell out this year.

It is clear you believe Tony George is the anti-christ and can do nothing right.

Tony got rid of USAC at the Speedway, albeit a few decades too late.

But thanks for the personal attack. It means you feel threatened by the truths you read.

**Truth Detector** · 08-03-2003 10:11 AM

timinglights, if you're going to come here and spew your c-wagon crap then I suggest you grow some thicker skin.

**timinglights** · 08-03-2003 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Truth Detector
timinglights, if you're going to come here and spew your c-wagon crap then I suggest you grow some thicker skin.

And if you would be so kind as to point out just one post where that is true...

I'm not in the least bothered by the lack of restraint displayed by certain forum members. I have faith in the moderators to take appropriate action against those who engage in personal attacks.

Quick question for you - which racing organization did more to promote IndyCar racing in the 1980's, CART or USAC?

Makes one wonder why Tony stuck with them.