Taken at the start of the race, from the pits. This to help decide a TJS bet, re. IndyCar/Cart attendance, I caught one, I may need help proving the bet and reeling the CARTisan in, one way or another. Robin Miller doesn't count/can't count.
Taken at the start of the race, from the pits. This to help decide a TJS bet, re. IndyCar/Cart attendance, I caught one, I may need help proving the bet and reeling the CARTisan in, one way or another. Robin Miller doesn't count/can't count.
Then let a CARTisan make this post. The war has been over for two seasons.
Besides, "the war" started in 1996, and ended with the first US 500, nearly 5 months later, it was always about the Indy 500!
Sorry... I saw the
Just didn't know what it meant.
IRL 2003:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/irl...on-tm-0112.jpg
IRL 2002:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/irl...l-tm-05031.jpg
CART 2002:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/car...on-lr-0208.jpg
CART 1999:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/car.../fo99-8-01.jpg
I dont know what the bet is, nor do I really want to know, as it is probably a view we dont share
judging purely by those 4 photos (which may be decieving) It would appear that it goes CART 99 (by a long way), CART 2002, IRL 2003, IRL 2002.
The CART events had/have better crowds, but the IRL brought an increase from 2002 to 2003.
CART 2002 and IRL 2003 seem pretty close to me. The big jumps are from those 2 pictures to 1999, and from those to pictures to IRL 2002. Looks like the IRL packed in ALOT more fans for this year than last year.
Great race at the track in Fontana, I usually do not watch the grandstands as they are boring
Last edited by doitagain; 09-23-2003 at 05:25 AM.
There are 2 deeply disturbing things about those photos:
1. the haemorrhaging of fans in recent years;
2. the Ganassi pit crew helmets.
"An emphasis was placed on drivers with road racing backgrounds which meant drivers from open wheel, oval track racing were at a disadvantage. That led Tony George to create the IRL." -Indy Review 1996
And if you go back and look at the CART race in 1997 the place was packed!
Cart 1997 at California
...which makes my point that they shouldn't have so scorched the earth even more valid.
It looks more like there wasn't a need for the irl in the first place. Making people choose between 2 OW series isn't a good idea to begin with.Originally posted by Defender
...which makes my point that they shouldn't have so scorched the earth even more valid.
Not correct.Originally posted by trac-champ
It looks more like there wasn't a need for the irl in the first place. Making people choose between 2 OW series isn't a good idea to begin with.
Fans didnt have to decide on 1 of 2 OW series. Fans got the frredom of choice in following the oval IRL, or the street/road of CART.
Really?Originally posted by trac-champ
]It looks more like there wasn't a need for the irl in the first place.
Championship Auto Racing Teams, Inc. - NYSE
Last Trade 10:37 AM ET - Sep 23, 2003
Price $0.63
With the REAL 500 directly against the Indianapolis 500, just who was it that made people choose?Making people choose between 2 OW series isn't a good idea to begin with.
Last edited by Doc Austin; 09-23-2003 at 09:57 AM.
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
The IRL in 2002 had 3 sections opened up past the press box.Originally posted by Cygni
CART 2002 and IRL 2003 seem pretty close to me. The big jumps are from those 2 pictures to 1999, and from those to pictures to IRL 2002. Looks like the IRL packed in ALOT more fans for this year than last year.
In 2003 the IRL had 4 sections open with about the same density level.
CART in 2002 had at least 8 sections (each section is represented by 2 flagpoles at the top of the stands) with the same density level as the IRL's crowd.
Synopsis: The IRL had a better turn out this year in SoCal. It has a long way to go to be considered an alternative to CART in SoCal. The question is, when will the trends cross? IF never, is the IRL wasting its time on a market that is not going to embrace it?
1998 was packed out too!
I'm sure Greg Moore's death in 1999 had to have affected all those in attendance that day
2000 was a washout, race run on Monday
2001 there was a quite a bit of empty spaces,
The difference is this year The IRL has the teams/sponsors & manufacturers........
Mackie says, "You're gonna have to get closer, my eyes are killin' me from counting Fontana pixels!!!"
No big deal on the bet, since I lost 50 to you last week, I'm trying to get some back.Originally posted by Cygni
IRL
But heres some for you anyway, Mackie.
That was an impressive CART crowd in 2002, if they do that again this year I'm toast. I'm thinkin' that the two eventd will be to close to call. Does that site always post pix, it might be a good way to settle the bet.
There were alot less stands in the 90's also.
Originally posted by Area54
The IRL in 2002 had 3 sections opened up past the press box.
In 2003 the IRL had 4 sections open with about the same density level.
CART in 2002 had at least 8 sections (each section is represented by 2 flagpoles at the top of the stands) with the same density level as the IRL's crowd.
Synopsis: The IRL had a better turn out this year in SoCal. It has a long way to go to be considered an alternative to CART in SoCal. The question is, when will the trends cross? IF never, is the IRL wasting its time on a market that is not going to embrace it?
where you drunk when you made this post? There is clearly more than a 1 to 4 ratio of extension past the press box from 2002-2003.
I wonder that about many who post here.Originally posted by AlJRFAN
where you drunk when you made this post?
bump
This is when they had only 50k seats, that was a hot ticket.Originally posted by indyracer56
And if you go back and look at the CART race in 1997 the place was packed!
Cart 1997 at California
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Area54
[B]The IRL in 2002 had 3 sections opened up past the press box.
In 2003 the IRL had 4 sections open with about the same density level.
CART in 2002 had at least 8 sections (each section is represented by 2 flagpoles at the top of the stands) with the same density level as the IRL's crowd.
60,000?
Please explain what you think CART did, other than not die soon enough to suit you, that scorched the earth and resulted in declining Fontana crowds.Originally posted by Defender
...which makes my point that they shouldn't have so scorched the earth even more valid.
Those photos don't even tell the whole story. From having been there each year for the CART races, that place was packed, solid. The stands were full, the lots were full, the concessions were all open and booming. The one exception was the last year they raced.
Most of those photos were taken at start finish or thereabouts where there is always good fan presence. I sat near the end of the front straight, near turn 1. At the CART races, it was packed there. There is one photo from that area which confirms this.
What the IRL photos don;t show is that beyond that start-finish area the place was as desolate as it could be.
And the one year I was there for qualifying in an IRL race (2002), as it accompanied a grand am event, there was absolutely no one...I mean maybe 50 people. Pick a seat, any seat, anywhere.
I am sure that a review of the media will tell the story as well...the IRL races at Fontana have been dismal failures for attendance. Yes there was an increase from 02 but you could have drawn an increased crowd by offering a free donut at the gates. I'm being facetious here, I don't know of any donut giveaway scam.
Anyway, I am done with this topic until someone can point me to a credible media source that says the IRL races had more people attending than 20,000...
Everyone else was done with this topic back in 2003.Originally posted by Mephistopholes
Anyway, I am done with this topic ...
Life's too short to worry/Life's too long to wait
Too short not to love everybody/Life's too long to hate
"There are a number of very knowledgeable and entertaining race fans here. There are also a number of morons. Your job is to figure out which is which." - Rev-Ed
Originally posted by bever911
Everyone else was done with this topic back in 2003.
Classic
Except Saw150, apparently.Originally posted by bever911
Everyone else was done with this topic back in 2003.
yeah, but he didn't have a good line to quote.Originally posted by JoeBob
Except Saw150, apparently.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks