Just heard on CNN that Pete has a book coming out next week where he admits to betting on baseball. Speculation is this may open the door to his induction into the hall of fame, as the whole betting on baseball issue has seemingly been the major sticking point. I say its about time.
Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Period.
Center Grove Trojans
2008 5A Football State Champs
2011 Track State Champs
Saw an ad during the bowl games (ABC) for an interview with Pete Rose. I think it was Charlie Gibson doing the interview but don't hold me to that.
The transformation is complete. The Indy 500 is the only IndyCar race that matters.
He's also planning on admitting to gambling in an up-and-coming feature real soon.
Originally posted by Truth Detector
Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Period.
..I SECOND that.
Originally posted by indyracefan
..I SECOND that.
\I third it !!!!!!!!!!!!
SENÓR MODERATOR......
"Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six"
" Only Those Who Will Risk Going Too Far....Can Possibly Find Out How Far One Can Go "...T.S. Elliot....
He belongs in the Hall of Fame based on his stats.
He broke the cardinal rule of baseball - one posted in every clubhouse - YOU DON'T BET ON BASEBALL.
So he shouldn't be allowed back in.
And he shouldn't be allowed to manage.
And I'm a Reds fan.
http://motorsportsblog.blogspot.com/
He broke the rules as a coach, not as a player.
The player belongs in the hall.
Compared to what some of the pro players have done Petes gambling was nothing...........and they're still playin
There's very few things in MLB that carry a life-time ban as a penalty.
Gambling on baseball while a player or coach is one.
Every player knows that from his first day in the bigs.
Pete chose to do it anyway.
He then chose to deny he did it.
He brought the ban on himself.
Until he admits he did it , he doesn't deserve to be in the HOF as a player , coach , or batboy , IMHO .
"Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less" - R.E.Lee
I thought some of you conservatives hate to be lied to and always stressed personal responsibility? Pete gambled on baseball with the knowledge that being caught would ban him from baseball. Yet he did it anyway. Then, after the commisioner died, he goes around telling the world that he thought the lifetime ban was for a limited period of time. Now after telling anyone who would listen for the last dozen or so years that he did not bet on baseball, suddenly in his book he is willing to admit betting on baseball. The consequenses of his actions were well known when he gambled so I don't believe we should lighten the sentence because he was such a great player. Seriously, there are lots of people in this world who have suffered greater unfair sentences than being denied an honor.
I think a reasonable solution is to inform Pete that he will be instated into the hall of fame after his passing. That way, the lifetime ban is enforced, and Pete gets the recognition for a great career as a player. He would be denied the honor of the ceremony, but that is what he gets for @#$%ing up.
I thought libs were all about forgiving and granting second chances.
My belief in personal responsibility is in my own life and those who represent me. I'm able to differentiate that from, say, an athlete or a radio commentator.
"he goes around telling the world that he thought the lifetime ban was for a limited period of time"
No, it was a lifetime ban with an opportunity to reinstate his eligibility after one year.
Gambling as a manager is WORSE than as a player. Especially when you control who plays, when pitchers get pulled, and when people pinch-hit.Originally posted by dog-ring
Compared to what some of the pro players have done Petes gambling was nothing...........and they're still playin
If a race car driver took money to not win a race, it would be cheating the fans. If a team owner took money to keep either of his drivers from winning, it would be worse, IMO.
He can have the opportunity to be reinstated. It doesn't bother me. But I don't think he should be reinstated. As usual, Bud Selig is wrong.
I don't think he should manage again because he wasn't very good at it. Lou Pinella won the World Series with the same basic team Pete couldn't win the NL West with.
One could argue it that the 1990 team was Pete's the he put together. But in the 1989 season they couldn't win anything due to the fact that Pete was heading to court for tax evasion charges everyday.Originally posted by mnkywrch
Lou Pinella won the World Series with the same basic team Pete couldn't win the NL West with.
I'm a life long Reds fans. I hate the fact that he gambled. But I also belive that the circumstances surrounding the case were also part of a which hunt intended to "get" Pete by people that hated him. He said something interesting from the book...
People are too quick to dismiss the fact that gambling is a disease, and a compulsive gambler, like Pete appeared to be, needs help. Dragging him though the mud only makes things worse. If you've ever known a gambler, you'd know that it's an addition as bad as drugs or alcohol, especially if you're a high-profile, wealthy person like Rose was. Baseball needs to re-evaluate it's stance on gambling. Not to just let it go, but to take an inititive to help and rehab players that fall into the gambling trap.''had (I) been an alcoholic or a drug addict, baseball would have suspended me for six weeks and paid for my rehabilitation.''
''I should have had the opportunity to get help, but baseball had no fancy rehab for gamblers like they do for drug addicts,'' Rose wrote. ''If I had admitted my guilt, it would have been the same as putting my head on the chopping block - lifetime ban. Death penalty. I spent my entire life on the baseball fields of America, and I was not going to give up my profession without first seeing some hard evidence. ... Right or wrong, the punishment didn't fit the crime - so I denied the crime.''
Posted by BADGER;
>>" I think a reasonable solution is to inform Pete that he will be instated into the hall of fame after his passing. That way, the lifetime ban is enforced, and Pete gets the recognition for a great career as a player. He would be denied the honor of the ceremony, but that is what he gets for @#$%ing up."<<
Good idea!
Professional sports understands that nothing would destroy their business quicker than proof that the participants are betting on games. That’s why many teams have members of the FBI speak to their athletes before their seasons, warning them of the dire consequences.
It's one thing to deny you've got a problem.Originally posted by Doctorindy
People are too quick to dismiss the fact that gambling is a disease, and a compulsive gambler, like Pete appeared to be, needs help. Dragging him though the mud only makes things worse. If you've ever known a gambler, you'd know that it's an addition as bad as drugs or alcohol, especially if you're a high-profile, wealthy person like Rose was. Baseball needs to re-evaluate it's stance on gambling. Not to just let it go, but to take an inititive to help and rehab players that fall into the gambling trap.
It's another to deny you've gambled on the game - when you're presented with the evidence.
I still don't think he's truly sorry for what he did. I think his main defense to the damage he's caused the game is "So? I'm Pete Rose!". Witness all the other rationalizations - "drugs are worse", "baseball should have gotten me help", etc.
Personally, I'm tired of it. I wish he'd go away and deal with the consequences of his actions. I still don't think he should go in, and I wish Selig would have never allowed him to participate in baseball-related activities.
If he gets the privilege to be eligible for the HoF, I hope the Veteran's Committee is the only group eligibile to elect him. If his peers will induct him, I'll feel a lot better about his induction than if the bozos from the Fourth Estate put him in.
I suppose I will accept the "gambling is a disease" theory rejecting the claim of that noted addictions psychologist, Tommy LaSorda, that gambling, drugs, sex, etc. are instead merely bad personal "choices". I would therefore, admitted tree hugging liberal that I am, support treatment, therapy, counseling, whatever for any "victim" wishing help to overcome their addiction.
But, I prefer not to have reformed drug addicts flying jumbo jets or performing surgeries. I don't want cured sex addicts, not even Wade Boggs, chaperoning my granddaughter's prom. And I don't want Peter Edward Rose managing a MLB team. He has, IMO, disqualified himself from such employment.
Pete was my favorite player on the Big Red Machine. And when he was allowed to leave Cincy for Philly, I vowed never to return to Riverfront Stadium until Pete was back or until Dick Wagner (then Reds GM) was gone. And I didn't. But, I was wrong. It was none of my business concerning his philandering or his sad performance as a father. But, I love baseball and Pete has inspired negativity and divisivness to the game for these past 15 years and continues to do so. Tomorrow's announcement of newly elected HOF members (if any) will be overshadowed by Pete's story.
I don't want him to ever make a buck inside the game and I could not care less if he ever makes the HOF or not. If he does, his plaque should note that he was "DISQUALIFIED FROM BASEBALL FOR GAMBLING ON HIS TEAMS GAMES AS THEIR MANAGER". JMO
Sorry for the rant.
Did I just more or less agree with mnkywrnch???
A couple points that have burned me up today (it's all over the radio, of course today) are these...
Saying that Pete did damage to the game is such extreme suggestions. Last time I checked, the 1985, 1986, and 1987 Reds weren't division winners. Neither were the 1988 or 1989 clubs. To say that his betting made diferences in the game seem to be moot point when the team was an also-ran. It can't even be proved. The big comparison that everyone always talks about was the Black Sox. Well, that team was actually in the World Series, and threw games. What is ignored is how bad steroids has "affected" the game. Don't you really think that juicing up isn't catrostrophically destroying the game to the same level that gambling would? How can we be 100% sure that a true product is out there if we have guys pumping full of performance enhancing drugs, and either hitting homeruns or striking out (unless he's intentionally walked) at every at-bat. To me, that's just as bad as gambling.
The other was that, after admissions that Pete betted 5 or 6 times a week, saying that "Days that Pete didn't bet were the same as betting against the Reds" is just a horrible statement. It proves the rabid hatred towards the guy from some, and proves that they are assessing guilt of a crime that he DID NOT COMMIT. All they want to say is that he bet AGAINST the Reds, and there is no proof of that ever happening. Now, since there's no proof, they are making up proof to further drag the guy through the mud.
I don't think Pete will manage again. I do think he will be reinstated, and be allowed to attend Baseball events (which he can't right now). I bet he will be voted to the HOF either in his last year of eligibiliy (Dec. 2005) or by the veterans committee.
I don't like that as a manager he bet on baseball games. I don't like that even when presented with detailed evidence he continued to lie about it. For years he has lied about it.
Now, he has a book coming out. And he finally admits it, BUT he never bet on the Red's.
I have my great memories of Charlie Hustle as a player, but I could care less either way if he gets in or not (hall of fame)
Makes perfect sense. I'm scared.Originally posted by BADGER, snipped:
...I think a reasonable solution is to inform Pete that he will be instated into the hall of fame after his passing. That way, the lifetime ban is enforced, and Pete gets the recognition for a great career as a player. He would be denied the honor of the ceremony, but that is what he gets for @#$%ing up.
Having been a Reds fan and a Rose fan - going to many games during the Big Red Machine days this is tough on me
I wanted to believe he didn't do it but it became obvious he did
Now, in the story at CNN/SI he is trying to rationalize it. He did it because he never thought he would get caught; he bet on the Reds as manager of the Reds but he didn't do it from the clubhouse and he never bet for them to lose plus he claims he never used inside knowledge on injuries etc. to decide his bets.
I think Shoeless Joe Jackson should get a reprieve first, then Rose
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?cnn=yes
I agree with Matt, if Rose gets in, then Shoeless Joe should get in. Third highest lifetime BA.
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson
RIP, Dan. You will always be one of my heroes.
I agree with Jayson Stark of espn.com, myself.
He's said it all a lot better than I ever could.
Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose AND Bart Giamatti - all on the same day.
I believe it was Badger who mentioned that the Hall of Fame is an Honor but for over a dozen years Pete Rose has exhibited no honor towards the game. Not only has he lied time after time but he has also called two former Commisioners liars, two men who respected the game and who are now dead. They aren't around to be vindicated so neither should Rose. His stats are already mentioned in the HOF and in my personal opinion that's as far as it should go.
As far as shoeless Joe Jackson one could argue that he should be in the HOF since there is evidence that he not only didn't throw the World Series but had outstanding stats. However he didn't act with honor because he knew what was going on and kept quiet about it thereby allowing it to take place.
I guess Honor doesn't hold as much value today as it did early in the last Century but it should. Why have our values fallen so far? It's because "We" have allowed them to.
Now this is coming from a guy who use to slide head first because that was the way Charlie Hustle did it.
And for those "conservatives" who think Pete Rose deserves a second ,he had a second chance... in fact he had thousands of chances and everytime he got another chance he chose to lie again.
Even Clinton finally admitted he had sex with "that woman" once the evidence was produced. Rose is only being honest now because he thinks America no longer cares about honor. If Rose gets into the HOF then that will at least be true in the case of America's favorite pastime.
Hey!
There's no melodrama in baseball!!!
For God's sakes get over the self-righteousness. Its a freaking game!! Conservative & Liberal have diddly squat to do with baseball!!!
Just a game?? Aren't our games suppose to teach our children life's lessons?Originally posted by Truth Detector
Hey!
There's no melodrama in baseball!!!
For God's sakes get over the self-righteousness. Its a freaking game!! Conservative & Liberal have diddly squat to do with baseball!!!
I played sports in High School in the 60's and College sports in the 70's and there were times when I saw people win because they were able to get away with cheating. Personally I could have never enjoyed a victory if I knew I had cheated to get it. It was the way I was raised whether anybody thinks I'm being self-righteous or not and it is part of the values I've tried to instill in my own son. However today we see players being praised for being "crafty" for bending the rules.
If you don't get what I'm talking about then that explains why we disagree on Pete Rose.
On the liberal/conservative slant that was a response to other things that had already been brought up in this thread. However the fact that several "known" liberals are taking the high road on a question of honor while some of the "known" conservatives are taking the attitude that what Pete Rose did doesn't really matter, well that only points out the truth that liberal/conservative politics have absolutely nothing to do with the values we choose to teach our children.
This bleeding heart liberal chooses to Teach his children well.
Bah humbug...MLB had Rose in attendance during their big wing ding last year...money...I believe Rose should be treated the same way that others in baseball have been treated for drug infractions...
Thank you Howard, you've just pointed out why it is so difficult to instill values in our children now days.
I mean what if your village is full of folk with slack values?
However I will say that it is quite difficult to not break into my Superiority Dance when those disagreeing with me take to quoting Mr. Scrooge.
"Thank you Howard, you've just pointed out why it is so difficult to instill values in our children now days.
I mean what if your village is full of folk with slack values?
However I will say that it is quite difficult to not break into my Superiority Dance when those disagreeing with me take to quoting Mr. Scrooge."
You obviously missed my point...MLB is amoral as is Rose...they deserve each other...I could care les if he ever sees the HOF much less be enshrined...
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks