Yes, I actually said that.
With Andretti's release today the dam has truly burst in the media. Finally.
Yes, I actually said that.
With Andretti's release today the dam has truly burst in the media. Finally.
Actually, Velocity, he said that yesterday. I posted a link to the B/S forum about it... yesterday.
That said, DANG am I looking forward to Friday.
I agree Skypigeon, and sorry did not mean to repeat anyone.
It is going to be a heck of a week, and Friday can't get here quick enough. I cannot imagine Rahal and now Andretti coming out and just saying this unless there was something big coming.
I'm quite sure everyone here will discuss this in an adult, intelligent fashion.
...---...
I AM trying
I am also trying to picture a judge saying, "Ya know, Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, Andretti and Tony George you don't know what you are talking about........so I am handing this back to the same people that lost $80 million last year"
I am not saying that to be inflammatory, I just can't imagine going against everyones wishes, including CART, who did open the door to the IRL.
You have all the true BIG NAME key players vs a group that has unpaid bills and unhappy track owners across the country with the same strategy they had last year? Seems cut and dried.
On that same note I would love to see a "bridge" enabled for all the drivers and mechanics currently in limbo to get over and stay employed etc. We welcome everyone as Fred Nation said last night.
Last edited by Velocity; 01-21-2004 at 11:42 AM.
*checks to see if monkey's are flying out of my butt*Originally posted by Jeff Chiszar
I'm quite sure everyone here will discuss this in an adult, intelligent fashion.
"Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate."
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Not to be picky, but, it's close to $120,000,000.00 they lost last year.Originally posted by Velocity
so I am handing this back to the same people that lost $80 million last year"
Mods, yep, they have a tough job.
Although, I'm sure they do giggle like a lil girl from time to time as they delete some posts.
Giggling as I move this to Feedback. . .
"If TF members were given solid gold cars, some would complain about the color." - stnkypete
good one rev
If you believe Tony and Fred, Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, and Andretti have nothing to do with actually operating the IRL. They are not on any board, have no ownership stake, and are only entrants."Ya know, Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, Andretti and Tony George you don't know what you are talking about
Therefore the question for the judge becomes "Does Tony George know what he's talking about, since he's spent (not made) 'millions of his family's dollars running the IRL'?"
(no SEC filings, but Autoweek and others say he has)
Originally posted by MichaelP
*checks to see if monkey's are flying out of my butt*
Jakester,
Of course they don't own anything. But, they represent about 95% of the known open wheel universe.
Point is people's futures depend on this, it is not a game, and everyone who anyone has ever heard of wants one series and that is influential.
It isn't like CART didn't have a chance, they have had hundreds of millions of dollars and started with 95% of the open wheel universe on IT's side, and it failed, miserably, by anyones measure.
So if you cannot make it with everyone behind you how in the heck can you make it now???
Tony George and the Indy Car Series have done the opposite, starting with basically zilch. Now if they were parachutes which one would you jump out of the plane with financially? It is a no brainer.
Everyone wasnt behind CART. The owner of the biggest race in the world (at the time) was very much not behind CART.So if you cannot make it with everyone behind you how in the heck can you make it now???
Tony George and the Indy Car Series have done the opposite, starting with basically zilch. Now if they were parachutes which one would you jump out of the plane with financially? It is a no brainer.
And i like the way people paint Tony as visionary for starting from zero, yet when OWRS tries to do it, they are bad guys for continuing the split... a split TONY STARTED. Anyway. This is kinda off topic.
And for once, can we try to keep the CART bashing to a normal level. Its getting out of control on this board.
Cygni, (agreed)
Just answer this question, because you are good at this stuff(and I mean that sincerely), but please respond without mentioning anything about Tony and Vision.etc:
Why is OWRS better suited to take CART forward than the IRL?
Because OWRS is willing to keep what I consider the core product of CART, a product that itself was never as flawed as CARTs management, and keep it running. If the IRL were to purchase CART's assets and go road racing, it wouldnt be the same product, and I dont think the IRL would ever take as many road courses as OWRS would. In that way, I believe OWRS will offer a better product and plan than the IRL would for the future of CART.
Gotcha. So it is primarily the road racing aspect, and focus, and that is understandable.
Having said that can you understand why Portland was kind of pushed aside, and Elkhart lake is not wanting to go with OWRS.
These are two great venues and natural road courses?
I agree that OWRS hasnt done everything right so far, especially in the way they have handled the communication with their potential tracks and teams. I think part of it is because of the huge magnifing glass anything involved with CART gets put under by the racing community, but their clearly seems to have been missteps along the way.
But in the end, I think road/street courses are financially sound, and as important as ovals to modern day open wheel racing. And besides, I wanna see em, and I think OWRS will offer me a much better series in that respect. If the IRL was willing to go 50/50 with Road/Street and Oval, i probably wouldnt have strong feelings against the IRL taking over CART, but 2-4, or even 6, just isnt enough in my eyes.
Only you see thru your eyesOriginally posted by Cygni
I agree that OWRS hasnt done everything right so far, especially in the way they have handled the communication with their potential tracks and teams. I think part of it is because of the huge magnifing glass anything involved with CART gets put under by the racing community, but their clearly seems to have been missteps along the way.
But in the end, I think road/street courses are financially sound, and as important as ovals to modern day open wheel racing. And besides, I wanna see em, and I think OWRS will offer me a much better series in that respect. If the IRL was willing to go 50/50 with Road/Street and Oval, i probably wouldnt have strong feelings against the IRL taking over CART, but 2-4, or even 6, just isnt enough in my eyes.
You didn't sell me Cygni but I understand your passion. The next few weeks are exciting for open wheel fans for sure, I understand some villify Tony George, I am the opposite but I understand how others feel through their expression.
In the final analysis the strength seems to be toward unity, and other than some fans and three potential owners wanting to keep on digging a hole, I think unity will win.
As far as most of us are concerned the sponsors, track, and the industry have already voted for Indy Car racing to be that entity going forward, because they have all seen the loss of energy and money trying to make two series work.
Last edited by Velocity; 01-21-2004 at 04:37 PM.
Would have said the same thing in 96, 97, 98 or 99 (with the exception of TG of course). Back then, all the big team owners were wrong. Who's to say they're right today? Revisionism at its worst (and this coming from a Cart fan who's attended and enjoyed Cart races but don't want to lose the "non pedal to the medal" mentality of many posters here who want the sport to prosper.Originally posted by Velocity
I AM trying
I am also trying to picture a judge saying, "Ya know, Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, Andretti and Tony George you don't know what you are talking about open the door to the IRL. .
rfellows,
You are correct, right or wrong is subjective.
Well, in this case perhaps. . .Originally posted by Velocity
right or wrong is subjective.
Here's the next question I plan to ask Tony the next time I run into him at a track:
"Tony, did you count on c^rt making nothing by stupid, counterproductive business decisions for eight years after you started the league?"
The IRL is almost completely incapable of running any of the former Cart events this year. At best, I can't see the series running 10 of them in 2005 either. OWRS can run them.Originally posted by Velocity
Cygni, (agreed)
Just answer this question, because you are good at this stuff(and I mean that sincerely), but please respond without mentioning anything about Tony and Vision.etc:
Why is OWRS better suited to take CART forward than the IRL?
He sure could have.Originally posted by Defender
Here's the next question I plan to ask Tony the next time I run into him at a track:
"Tony, did you count on c^rt making nothing by stupid, counterproductive business decisions for eight years after you started the league?"
"Is that my *** that I smell burning?" ... Helmet Stogie from "Death spasms of the Mabuchi"
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