The state of the IRL

[Dreyerfan]

Now, as You all may have tried to see in the thread that got axed, for what reason, I do not know.

I tried to relay a message to Howard.

Howard in 2000, when some CART guys were making rumblings about coming over, I said, hey thats awesome, wed have all these drivers and they would be there, HUGE fields.
Howard said, that I was nieve, the owners would shut out the little teams, raise costs, and fill the field with foreign drivers.

I was my usual disrespectfull self, calling him an idiot, shut up old timer blah blah blah.


Now, the state of the IRL now, is CART era 95.


What hurts me the most, is when the CART trolls, and Howard told me what would happen, but I didnt believe it would.

Thats why Im disenfranchised, thats why I will not be attending the Indy 500 for the first time since 93.

This is why I watch my San Antonio Spurs religously, instead of flipping over ot INDy Practice, (oh pardon me, cant quite get that on TV anymore)


What the CART guys said about George did it for power??

****, they were right. That hurts to admit.

[Disciple]

Hey that's the spirit. Work positively in every way you can to affect the future evolution of the series.

Or, you could just watch basketball, complain and not do anything.

Lots of people are guilty of apathy. Oh, well. Hope everything else is OK.

[Disciple]

That's because it's May and there are way too many nattering nabobs of negativity (the coolest thing Spiro Agnew ever said) with absolutely ZERO respect for the sport who are trying their darndest to ruin the month for diehard racing fans who never EVER jumped off the Indy Car bandwagon and know in their hearts their own springtime Christmas is about to unfold. For those such people, life could not be better, despite the desperate bleating to the contrary.

Personally, it would be better if all such folks simply stuck a sock in it for a month.

Sorry for the brutal honesty, but that's how I feel sport.

[Vasserfan]

I remember the Iraqi misinformation Minister, "Bagdad Bob," going on TV and telling everyone that Saddam was in control, that they were winning the war, and that there were not any US troops anywhere near Bagdad. All the while, US tanks were racing through Bagdad, tearing down billboards of Saddam and taking control of the city.


Don't worry, all is well with the state of open wheel in America. Nothing is wrong. Pay no attention to the facts, all is fine.

[Disciple]

Emotionless fact: The IRL is not without problems (not as big as being bankrupt and out of business, but who's counting). I am the first to list them. The biggest being marketing shortcomings. There's the engine issue. The partner issue. Lots of issues.

None of those issues should stop anyone who fancies themself a racing fan from enjoying the month, just as folks have since 1911. There will be plenty of times to complain like a whining yenta in June and after that.

People whose only intent is to try and slam the sport, the institution, the legacy, the Borg Warner, whatever, without any regard for sportsmanship or the enthusiasm of others in the sport's biggest month ought to either call Dr. Kervorkian for assistance or curl up in the fetal position in a dark closet and let those of us who get really jazzed about the month of May enjoy it without a bunch first-wife-like behavior to ruin it all. Come back in June.

Or, these same folks could do something constructive about their criticism. You know, write a letter to Anton or Brian, then share a courtesy copy with the fine members of TF. In the words of the not-so-immortal band Cracker, '...if you want to change the world shut your mouth and start to spin it.'

Good advice.

[dreamracer]

Or you could vote with your wallet. If enough fans do that, the boys in the suits will figure it out eventually.

That's what Dreyerfan appears to be doing.

[Disciple]

Voting with your wallet. That's also a viable choice. A very good one, I might add.

But it begs the question why would you then feel compelled to spend the entire month of May p*ssing and moaning about it and generally acting rude toward people whose enthusiasm for and support of the sport is into it's sixth decade without any flipflops of any kind? Is there some satisfaction in trying to be so negative?

[Railbird]

excuse me Defender

is this not a discussion forum?

sorry to interupt

[Devour]

Originally posted by Defender
Voting with your wallet. That's also a viable choice. A very good one, I might add.

But it begs the question why would you then feel compelled to spend the entire month of May p*ssing and moaning about it and generally acting rude toward people whose enthusiasm for and support of the sport is into it's sixth decade without any flipflops of any kind? Is there some satisfaction in trying to be so negative?

Main Entry: fo·rum
Pronunciation: 'fOr-&m, 'for-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural forums also fo·ra /-&/
Etymology: Latin; akin to Latin foris outside, fores door -- more at DOOR
1 a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2 : a judicial body or assembly : COURT
3 a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Railbird
excuse me Defender

is this not a discussion forum?

sorry to interupt

not in may apparently

[Disciple]

Originally posted by Railbird
excuse me Defender

is this not a discussion forum?

Absolutely. There are plenty of worthwhile topics to discuss, too.

Bear in mind the same ones the same people have been trying to whomp us over the head with each and every May since 1996 invariably paint the IRL in a bad light in a hostile fashion based on either flawed assumptions or poor sportsmanship, and has a tendency to completely suck the joy out of the month for casual fans who might, gasp, show a glint of interest in the Greatest Spectacle in Racing. Ever wonder why there are fewer fans? It's downright scary to be one these days. It's not just the insane, vulgar comments spewed by people who ran c^rt and its participants, its Internet forums filled with vile poor sports and columnists who won't pull their heads out of their arses who have access to column space. How can you get interested in something that people shout you down for expressing even minor interest in?

I've asked nicely for people to pull themselves into the current decade for a change, understand evolution and the power the fans have in it, and simply enjoy the month of May without whining. Oh, sure...I'll gripe about ABC and ESPN. But I also communicate with them fairly regularly about my concerns instead of JUST griping.

Would it be TOO much to request, nicely, again, that we talk about MORE topics that steer us away from 1995? The world has changed A LOT since then.

If anyone needs any worthwhile topic suggestions, I'm sure we can come up with a few. I know I can.

We already know how many of the 'fans' who squat here feel about Tony, about 1995, and about how 'bad' things are. We got it.

It's MAY!

All I'm asking is that we ALL enjoy it. It's not difficult.

[Railbird]

Here's an idea Defender

When you see a topic that may put a dent in your enjoyment of the month of May just pass on by it.

[Devour]

Originally posted by Defender

It's MAY!

All I'm asking is that we ALL enjoy it. It's not difficult.

All you're asking is for is for everyone to either see things the way that you do, or to shut up for the rest of the month. That's not a forum. For the most part, we do enjoy it. But we don't enjoy it as much as we used to, and we're talking about why that is. If these discussions really ruin your enjoyment, find another thread - there are quite a few going, many very positive. Perhaps you'll notice I didn't tell you to find another website, or another sport, or suggest that you're less of a fan than I am? There's plenty of room for everyone. Even you.

[Richard Kimble]

Originally posted by Railbird
Here's an idea Defender

When you see a topic that may put a dent in your enjoyment of the month of May just pass on by it.

This from the guy that complained there were too many[negative]CART financial threads,yet posted in almost everyone.

Railbird,you should empathize with the Deef,not harangue him.He is expressing the very same viewpoint you did,albeit the ''fan'' viewpoint is different.

[dirtfan]

I'd enjoy the Month of May more if I had someone like Kite, Yeley, the Laziers etc. to cheer for. (Even Sarah )
Never was impressed by the "spend your way to a trophy" types like Penske, Steinbrenner et al.

[Doc Austin]

The sky is falling.

[Railbird]

When did Defender become the moderator of the Biz forum Richard?

I tried to keep the topics on racing on what is a racing forum.

Of course when I realized I wasn't getting the job done I resigned.

Sorry if I offended you

[rrrr]

Originally posted by Doc Austin
The sky is falling.

Hey Doc, did the news that Senator Heinz-Kerry rides a Serotta make you feel a kinship with him?

He prolly just carries it around on a rack atop his, er, his family's Suburban.

[1204]

Originally posted by Doc Austin
The sky is falling.

Very,very slowly but yes it is falling.

[Chaos]

it's not the sky, it's the original vision

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by rrrr
Hey Doc, did the news that Senator Heinz-Kerry rides a Serotta make you feel a kinship with him?

What a waste of a good bike!

I'm sure he tried to blame a secret service agent..............

http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2325

They took the bike to the shop and he went home. Buwaaaa! If you're a man you get back on and finish the ride.

[AlJRFAN]

If enough people vote with there wallet the only extent of Open Wheel Racing will be F1 and that will even be in the dumps the way its going.

[Doc Austin]

Originally posted by El Mariachi
Does this qualify as a personal attack?

Doesn't look like it's directed at any one person in particular, so it's not a personal attack.

Your "holier than thou" attitude.....

Hmmmm. The use of the word "you" is pretty specific, and I'de say the above qualifies as a personal attack.

[carl s]

Originally posted by GT3Supercup
Wow. Well Tg has finally managed the hattrick:

1. Pizz off all CART fans
2. Make the sport irrelevant to mainstream America
3. Pizz off the original IRL "core" fans.


All he's got left is Defender (take that the right way dood!)


Amazing.

[Disciple]

Yo, El (and other lurking 'the world ended in 1995' freaks and various other 'new members')...I call bullsh*t.

My only request has been that 'fans' who come to IRL-centric forums specifically to chide the IRL for whatever reason please take a few weeks off while the rest of us enjoy the best month of the year.

I'm not telling anyone they can't get their jollies by making fun of Tony George or talking about flying c-wagons or making fun of injury or death or talking about how ugly Tony's mom is or how large Sarah's butt is or how it's not like it was in 1995 or any of that nonsense.

It's just common courtesy. Now honestly, how many IRL fans do you see squatting on 'champ' car-centric forums telling those fans how bad things are for them 24/7? You know why you don't? Class. Sportsmanship. Respect. That's why.

Even people like Racewriter and that Rakestraw guy from 950 have the common decency to go to c-wagon when they feel the urge to blast the IRL in hateful, childish ways. Look, there are plenty of IRL hate sites where you can go and act like infants all day long. Why continue to try and pull that nonsense here? Off Camber is accepting new members, and as far as I know so is c-wagon.

It's a serious question, and I do not feel I'm being unreasonable asking for a little respect for this forum and its participants, not to mention Indy Car racing.

Do you think you and your little pals could try to show a little sportsmanship this month?

[Vasserfan]

This is the Biz/Splitz forum. Issues pro and con to IRL are fair game jsut at issue pro and con on CART/OWRS and even NASCAR are. If I didn't want to deal with negative Champ Car posts, I would avoid this forum. If someone during the month of May doesn't want to hear anything remotely negative about the IRL or open wheel, perhaps they shoudl avoid this forum and go to the IRL one. Or as a wise one stated on the Fontana ratings post, "Perhaps thicker skin is in order"

I think the moderators do a good job and if we get out of hand, they deal with it.

[Railbird]

My family's history with the Indianapolis 500 reserves me the right to criticize the current state of the event.

If it offends you I am sorry.

[rrrr]

Interjecting a bit of polictical BS from the Serotta forum Doc linked, regarding a bicycle crash by Democrat hopeful John F'in Kerry:

I demand a full investigation into this alleged accident! I want to know the possesion timeline of this sand, is it west Texas sand? Was it trucked into Massachussetts by a Haliburton subsidarary?

Hawhawhaw, now that's good one. BTW, the guy that posted it is a confirmed Democrat, so humor is humor sometimes.

And just for the record, I am also tired of the constant whining. Jeez, even when I am on an anti-SFKAC/OWRS agenda it only lasts for a day or two.

Not only that, I try to respond to a variety of posts and be an all around kinda guy. Some of you are as predictible as my morning bowel movement. Lighten up a little, 'kay?

[Devour]

Originally posted by Defender

It's just common courtesy. Now honestly, how many IRL fans do you see squatting on 'champ' car-centric forums telling those fans how bad things are for them 24/7? You know why you don't? Class. Sportsmanship. Respect. That's why.

It's a serious question, and I do not feel I'm being unreasonable asking for a little respect for this forum and its participants, not to mention Indy Car racing.

Do you think you and your little pals could try to show a little sportsmanship this month?

You know, your biggest misunderstanding is that you assume that we're not fans. We don't agree with you, and we're not happy with Tony George. You're just going to have to come to grips with that. There are a lot of us. Heck, be happy we're here still griping about it. Many more have left the series and the sport altogether, and they're not coming back (and yes, we DO need them). I, for one, am going to continue voicing my opinions - regardless of which month it is.

On the other hand, if you're willing to keep your opinions and thoughts to yourself for an entire month, perhaps I'd be open to negotiation.

[Indyfan4ever]

"You know, your biggest misunderstanding"

Thats the wrong attitude.


"We don't agree with you"

Soooooo.. that makes us wrong?.

"and we're not happy with Tony George."

Is any one perfect?.... and while were at it, tell me what was so great about Heitzler and Pook?. One set you up, and the other sold you down the river.

" You're just going to have to come to grips with that."

No... no we don't. Wrong attitude.

"There are a lot of us. "

2-3000?.

"Heck, be happy we're here still griping about it."

Oh yes.. just overjoyed. Don't do anything positive, just *****, cry and moan.

"Many more have left the series and the sport altogether, and they're not coming back "

Don't kid yourself.

"if you're willing to keep your opinions and thoughts to yourself for an entire month, perhaps I'd be open to negotiation."

Again.. wrong attitude. I'll speak for myself, i don't waste my time negotiating with bitter beer faces. I have serious doubts the powers that be will worry about that either.


Tj