I just wanted to clarify whether CCWS or IRL directly pay their teams to compete.
Not talking about purses here, but team assistance to show up on the grid.
I was under the impression that CCWS is, but I haven't been able to track down a source.
I suspect IRL does to at some level, at least for the 500... seems like an awful coincidence that exactly 33 cars tried to qualify.
jono
"They are actually paying me to race. What a concept."
-- Andrew Ranger talking about his NASCAR Canada team
I'm under the same impression, jono, regarding CCWS at this point, but I doubt if anything can be confirmed on either one. Only thing I DO know is that a prospective CCWS owner last year was offered by one Amigo $3 million, a couple cars and free engines to compete and turned it down.
As far as IRL goes, I think some of that (direct payment) occurred in earlier years but I don't think it's occurring now. I believe I saw somewhere that the IRL has a segment of its marketing staff dedicated to assisting teams find sponsors and there's a purse incentive for regulars similar to NASCAR's for Nextel Cup.
At some level every series subsidizes the teams. Look at the $500M Bernie's adding to the F1 team honey pot... think Minardi would survive without that?
So I don't think it's as negative as it sounds. It does become negative when you have "Ryan" and "Jimmy" on the sides of cars instead of paying sponsors, which really wasn't the case in CCWS this year.
But before CCWS, the OWRS crew said they were ending entrant support... that was before AF and Rahal left, though, so I'm under the impression in trying to meet their 18 car commitment they had to put some extra money into some pockets.
I don't see how they go from $30M in 2003 to $0 in 2004 is all.
Oh, and I'm suspicious about the IRL too.I'll be even more suspicious if they don't have Honda & Toyota around...
jono
When CART first started in 1979, the bigger guys helped out the smaller guys here and there, loaning cars or engines and the like to make sure the thing kept going. Think that's happened in a lot of "start-up" situations.
Fair enough. I'm still looking for the smoking gun, though, if anyone has a link to comments from CCWS or the IRL confirming or denying team assistance.Originally posted by indycool
When CART first started in 1979, the bigger guys helped out the smaller guys here and there, loaning cars or engines and the like to make sure the thing kept going. Think that's happened in a lot of "start-up" situations.
jono
As far as the IRL is concerned I think it's fairly clear that Honda is supplementing some of the teams and races.
Clearly there is a lack of sponsorship on both sides. That loss in operational funding for the IRL had to come from IMS/IRL in order to bring teams over and maintain the smaller crews in the presence of larger teams such as Penske.
I think the interview of Tony George on Wind Tunnel this year started to mark the turn in where that money was coming from. He mentioned that paying the drivers and getting USAC drivers into IRL teams was the responsibility of the teams themselves. Clealy this did not mirror his original plan which was just the opposite.
My thought at that point was that Tony and IMS had made the decision that this was it for him. That the teams needed to stand on their own and find other sources of cash to keep moving forward.
Tough love? Perhaps..... But there is no don't that both sides necessitate other sources for cash as sponsorship for both are down and there really seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel - at least not yet.
This is why I feel it will be difficult to just move to a standard push rod-engine BTW. At this point the IRL needs Honda and they are not up for that sort of step back in technology.
Yoke-TV?Originally posted by jonovision_man
So I don't think it's as negative as it sounds. It does become negative when you have "Ryan" and "Jimmy" on the sides of cars instead of paying sponsors, which really wasn't the case in CCWS this year.
Anyway, one could say that the IRL and CC have teamsupport in the way of purse-money. Any driver that participated in all IRL events in 2004 had at least $700.000,- "support" from the serie. CC announced they were dropping teamsupport, and at the same moment announced purse-money increases. Imo all the same with a different name attached to it.
Depends... do the losers get money too?Originally posted by Roninho
Yoke-TV?
Anyway, one could say that the IRL and CC have teamsupport in the way of purse-money. Any driver that participated in all IRL events in 2004 had at least $700.000,- "support" from the serie. CC announced they were dropping teamsupport, and at the same moment announced purse-money increases. Imo all the same with a different name attached to it.
jono
Yes, Roninho, CCWS announced no Pookfare and was supposed to pay more in purse money to account for it. But going into the last three races of the season, the driver earnings on cart.com showed an average purse of about $600,000 per race. When that was questioned on forums, the driver earnings were taken down off the site.
Also, the CCWS news release on the championship awards showed that Bourdais got $750,000 from the point fund, down from $1 million previously.
The IRL is paying purse money of about $1 million per race plus $10 million at Indy.
As I mentioned, there is "plan money" built into the IRL purses similar to NASCAR's Nextel Cup plan for regulars. Has been for several years. And yes, there's not much doubt that Honda and Toyota funding is a source of income for teams.
Yes. 18th place pays $22500,- according to this:Originally posted by jonovision_man
Depends... do the losers get money too?
jono
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/C...0PDFR_0001.pdf
(prize money after race 1)
I thought you were talking about IRL... but presumably the same situation.Originally posted by Roninho
Yes. 18th place pays $22500,- according to this:
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/C...0PDFR_0001.pdf
(prize money after race 1)
Didn't CART have a $20,000 pay-out for showing up on the grid? Looks like they just renamed it prize money from that chart...
jono
The IRL has the Leader's Circle:
Top 24 in points get $22.5k in "show" money. The IRL purse is guaranteed to be $1mil per race (usually a little more due to contingency programs).
If 24 cars show, $540k of the purse is committed to the Leaders Circle teams before a wheel is ever turned. The remaining $460k is then paid out based on where you finish the race.
If less than 24 cars are there, the Leaders Circle money is tossed into the "position" money
Indy is a different ballgame, b/c the Leaders Circle money is greater and they changed the purse structure in 2004. The top 8 made a little less, and the bottom 8 made a lot more. Minimum at Indy was $192k.
Then there are various IRL deductions for "administration", "point fund", etc that total around 20%. Some of that winds up going back to the team at the banquet, some doesn't.
As usual, running up front means you'll get more money.
Championship pays $1mil.
Manufacturers have their own internal incentive programs that don't show in the purse. (They'll pay a $1xx bonus for Indy, $xx bonus for winning a race, $xxx, for the championship, etc.)
They say the blood is on my hands
‘Cause I put down the money and I made up the plan
www.tracksideonline.com
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