Danica vs. Legge

[indycool]

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.d.../APS/506290962

This is an AP article out of Cleveland about Katherine Legge, who won an Atlantic race in the CCWS series. It appears that Legge was very appropriate with her comments until she got asked by a reporter about Danica. Her last comment, at the end, though, is a lot of BS.

It seems true that Legge has some talent. She talked her way into an Infiniti Pro Series test with Mo Nunn before the program died. She showed well.

But sorry, winning an Atlantic race doesn't measure up to sitting on the front row and finishing fourth at Motegi, being fast and nearly getting the pole at the Indianapolis 500 and leading the race with seven to go and finishing fourth at Indy, whether Patrick posed in FHM or not.

If you wanna go for "hot," Shawna Robinson is a very atrractive lady who has competed in the NASCAR (then Winston) Cup series, a very pleasant, nice person who has never gotten good equipment. She's also a mother who took time off from her racing career to raise a family and doesn't do that stuff, she's older and she's a racer.

That Legge, although she is to be respected for her talent and grinding it out to get to the big leagues, winning an Atlantic race somehow is more important than what either Patrick or Robinson has accomplished is a lot of crap....or Janet Guthrie, or Lyn St. James or Desire Wilson.

[downtowndeco]

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over a fluff "personality" piece. She may or may not be a good/great race car driver. I'll wait & see on that. And any bluster she may have projected, well, I'm OK with that too. It's all part of promoting ones self. But the fact is she could win the CCWS championship three years in a row and still not get 10% of the press that Danica (or herself) would get by running well in the Indy 500 next year. Indy truely does mean something. The GP of Denver does not.

[Racewriter]

Shawna Robinson is a very atrractive lady who has competed in the NASCAR (then Winston) Cup series, a very pleasant, nice person who has never gotten good equipment.

Horse hockey. Shawna had GREAT stuff, everywhere but Cup, and severely underachieved. She had two full seasons in the James Finch ARCA car, and was only competitive on the plate tracks. In BGN, she had most of a season in Mike Laughlin's Polaroid car (a car which won before and after her tenure), and was a solid 25th place car. She was pathetic in the BAM car. Matter of fact, she even had the best stuff when Lefty Robinson was running her in Modifieds and big rigs. Shawna's a decent driver on the weekend level, but that's a long way from Winston Cup.

For the record, here are the biggest female wins that I'm aware of in the USA (solo wins only, and drag racing left out):

Tammy Jo Kirk - 1997 Snowball Derby
Erin Crocker - 2005, World of Outlaws (I forget the track)
Jenny White, 2003 World Cup 300
Katherine Legge, Toyota Atlantics, 2005
Elizabeth Halpin, 1999 SUPR Armadillo Nationals (dirt late models)
Sarah Fisher, NAMARS midgets, Winchester Speedway, 1998

There have also been championships in regional and weekly racing, including at tracks like Thunder Road and I-70, in headline divisions. Kara Hendrick was on the verge of some big things when she got killed.

One of the things that consistently amazes me about women in racing is that the women who are winning are not the women getting the rides and the attention (Crocker excepted).

Overseas, I'd say the biggest accomplishment is Desire' Wilson's two wins in British national F1 series in 1977-8.

[MichaelG]

Milka Duno, won several Grand-Am races (though she's had help).

If anyone wants to see a fair who's who of women race car drivers, go back and look at the results of the Panoz Women's GT Series. It ran as a support race to the American Le Mans Series in 1999 and 2000. Many of the women who have since moved on to other forms of motorsports ran in it. And, sadly, just like the men, some of a quickest, American women drivers were left behind because they didn't have the resources to continue their careers.

There are companies out their that would really want to have a woman driving their car (think department stores, minivan makers, etc). It's a shame that very few people put venture capital into the developing women drivers. There's a market that, for the most part, has remained untouched.

[Racewriter]

Milka Duno, won several Grand-Am races (though she's had help).

If anyone wants to see a fair who's who of women race car drivers, go back and look at the results of the Panoz Women's GT Series. It ran as a support race to the American Le Mans Series in 1999 and 2000. Many of the women who have since moved on to other forms of motorsports ran in it. And, sadly, just like the men, some of a quickest, American women drivers were left behind because they didn't have the resources to continue their careers.

There are companies out their that would really want to have a woman driving their car (think department stores, minivan makers, etc). It's a shame that very few people put venture capital into the developing women drivers. There's a market that, for the most part, has remained untouched.

Milka Duno has won GA races, typically by driving the bare minimum of laps necessary to be classified (well off the pace) and Andy Wallace doing the heavy lifting.

The Women's GT series was made up primarily of women who had no prior experience (and if they had experience, no success) in competitive racing. That's one big reason that it failed.

[Jim Wilke]

I found this elsewhere and thought it was well written and reasoned:

The incessant Danica Patrick bashing by some readers truly is sophomoric and the comparisons between her and Ms. Legge need to stop as well. No, Ms. Patrick didn't win a race last season, but that was largely because the series was dominated by two extremely talented racers that SHOULD be in Champ Cars right now in Jon Fogarty and Ryan Dalziel.

Let's also keep in mind that she finished ahead of such drivers as Alex Ranger and Ronnie Bremer in the points race last year. Can anyone honestly say to themselves that there's anyone in this year's Atlantic series anywhere near the talents of Fogarty, Dalziel, Ranger or Bremer? Hardly.

Not to take anything away from Ms. Legge, but she's also one of 12 rookies in this year's series and you can be fairly certain that unless someone brings a big check $$$ next year, none of these drivers will be in Champ Cars next year.
A year ago, Ms. Patrick was being celebrated, while many Champ Car fans made jest of Al Unser. Now that they've crisscrossed career paths, so seems the reaction to their abilities from readers on this board.

We need to cheer and celebrate all of these drivers who put their lives on the line every time they step in a car rather than try to ridicule them simply because their opportunity came in a different racing series. Richard G., Springfield, OH

[Kurt Cobain]

I was sort of wondering when this topic would get raised.

Both are talented and have had good resumes and potentially bright futures ahead of them.

Can't get any better than that.

[Indyfan31]

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.d.../APS/506290962
But sorry, winning an Atlantic race doesn't measure up to sitting on the front row and finishing fourth at Motegi, being fast and nearly getting the pole at the Indianapolis 500 and leading the race with seven to go and finishing fourth at Indy, whether Patrick posed in FHM or not.

Unbelievable. You should be running your own race team.
So tell us, how does winning an Atlantic race compare to finishing 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th & 15th?

[lkchris]

Inevitably ...


Danica vs Legge would be just more of the same.

American fans want American drivers.

Now, Danica vs Erin ... .

Danica is interesting in the real world because she's American.

Legge could prove slightly more interesting than Wheldon (who wouldn't?) but mostly she's just interesting to the grass is ALWAYS greener folks, a small group of auto racing fans mostly interested in dying series.

[lkchris]

Unbelievable. You should be running your own race team.
So tell us, how does winning an Atlantic race compare to finishing 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th & 15th?

Get over it.

Winning in Atlantics is NOT SQUAT compared to leading the Indy 500.

[Indyfan31]

There's nothing to "get over". I'll bet if I asked you who won Indy 20 years ago you'd pull the answer right off the top of your head. But if I asked you who he passed for the lead you'd have no idea without Google. Leading a race temporarily just requires playing with pit strategy, eventually you'll be in front. Winning is the only thing that matters in racing and you're lying to yourself if you don't believe that.

[Ken]

I've been impressed with Legge so far......seen her live twice...LB and Monterrey

Yes the TA series is watered down compared to last year...but Legge has shown to more aggressive than DP was....of coarse that is simply JMO

intteresting match-up if you ask me.....hopefully they will get the chance to compete against one another in the future

[nascarnation]

maybe we can have Katherine face off with the winner of the Danica/Bernie cage match..........

[Texan]

I never heard a peep about Legge winning a race in the general media.

OTOH Danica......................

Must be some truth to lkchris' statement.

[Indyknut]

In todays world of racing with multiple cars at the front very evenly matched, it takes a driver to take a chance during a race to move to the front. That driver has to be talented enough to pull off the move required when taking the chance or they wind up in the wall. Remain conservative and you'll probably finish the race intact but you'll never move forward and quite likely you'll get passed by other drivers behind you willing to push a move.

That's the difference I've seen in the 2 ladies. In the short time I've seen Legge on the track, she's willing to try moves in order to improve her position and seems to have the talent to pull them off, Danica on the other hand, seems content to drive to a level in the field she's comfortable with and circle the track until the race is over taking whatever position she winds up in. Will she ever take it to the next level? Too early to tell but that sort of racing technique makes her a midpack middler at best. She'll be good at bringing the car home but won't be in contention for the lead unless her team trys wacky pit strategy like Rahal did at Indy.

Lets face it, the bulk of the race Danica ran 10-14 place. She got to the front due to crazy pit strategy. She faded quickly at the end and had Bourdais not had his accident, she'd probably have been looking a 6 or 7th if she didn't run out of fuel first.

[Kurt Cobain]

I never heard a peep about Legge winning a race in the general media.

OTOH Danica......................

Must be some truth to lkchris' statement.

Keep digging and you find news on her win. In the meantime try this: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ne...1&sa=N&start=0

I'm not by any means saying Legge's getting more pub than Danica, but to say there's nothing on her is not knowing your latest news...

[cleanupcrew]

There's nothing to "get over". I'll bet if I asked you who won Indy 20 years ago you'd pull the answer right off the top of your head. But if I asked you who he passed for the lead you'd have no idea without Google. Leading a race temporarily just requires playing with pit strategy, eventually you'll be in front. Winning is the only thing that matters in racing and you're lying to yourself if you don't believe that.

leading a race because of pit strategy and circumstance is one thing - but that is not what Danica did - which I'm sure you are well aware of

Danica had a pole capable car at the Indy 500 - barely missed the pole but showed significant talent by driving through a huge tank slapper that would have put a number of other cars in the wall

while Ms Legge seems a talented and determined driver to try and claim a TA win is somehow more important than Danica's efforts at Indy is just plain ridiculous

I'd welcome Legge, or any other experienced driver - but those who keep harping on Danica's, or other drivers, lack of "wins" as some indicator of their talent or right to be where there are, are just showing their bias and agendas

there is only one winner in any race - that does not mean the rest are, except by literal definition, "losers"

[cleanupcrew]

In todays world of racing with multiple cars at the front very evenly matched, it takes a driver to take a chance during a race to move to the front. That driver has to be talented enough to pull off the move required when taking the chance or they wind up in the wall. Remain conservative and you'll probably finish the race intact but you'll never move forward and quite likely you'll get passed by other drivers behind you willing to push a move.

That's the difference I've seen in the 2 ladies. In the short time I've seen Legge on the track, she's willing to try moves in order to improve her position and seems to have the talent to pull them off, Danica on the other hand, seems content to drive to a level in the field she's comfortable with and circle the track until the race is over taking whatever position she winds up in. Will she ever take it to the next level? Too early to tell but that sort of racing technique makes her a midpack middler at best. She'll be good at bringing the car home but won't be in contention for the lead unless her team trys wacky pit strategy like Rahal did at Indy.

Lets face it, the bulk of the race Danica ran 10-14 place. She got to the front due to crazy pit strategy. She faded quickly at the end and had Bourdais not had his accident, she'd probably have been looking a 6 or 7th if she didn't run out of fuel first.

comparing taking risks in Atlantics to taking risks in an IndyCar is apples and oranges - you do not and cannot take the kind of risks in an IndyCar you can in TA - those who do try TA type risks end up in the wall

Danica's direction at present is to finish the race and gain experience - she has done that

and the crap about pit strategy being the reason she was up front is just that - she ran the same or better speeds than any of the other leaders when she was up front - and I know you are very well aware that the "fading quickly" BS you posted - intimating it was the driver experience that caused it - is a complete load of horse poop - Danica "faded" because of fuel conservation - trying to make it to the end

as far as Danica's "talent" see my post above - you obviously did not see her qualifying effort - that was as "veteran" a save as you will ever see

find something else to promote your agenda - making up crap about drivers - any drivers - talents is not the way to do it

[Texan]

Kurt, you made my point.
One didn't need to 'dig' for Danica news.

If you are required to 'google' for it I don't consider it 'general media'.

While it is changing rapidly, general media, in my context, meant(means) TV, radio and print. Believe me I'm not selling short the internet for delivering news and info. (Being a Google shareholder, I would like to think it has reached that level.)

I'm sure it was covered on the Owrs web sites.

[Kurt Cobain]

Kurt, you made my point.
One didn't need to 'dig' for Danica news.

If you are required to 'google' for it I don't consider it 'general media'.

While it is changing rapidly, general media, in my context, meant(means) TV, radio and print. Believe me I'm not selling short the internet for delivering news and info. (Being a Google shareholder, I would like to think it has reached that level.)

I'm sure it was covered on the Owrs web sites.

I assure you Texan, it was a very short dig. What, half a shovel full?

Check out the link to my hometown daily www.thejournalnet.com page B7 titled: Legge challenging Patrick to be racing's leading lady

It's dated Thursday, June 30, 2005 --Hey! that's today! Truth Detector can back me up on that as he gets the same paper.

Yes, it's on Google, but it's also on Yahoo too and for a lot of people the Internet happens to be a great source.

Perhaps someone at CC and the Atlantics is finally doing their job. Getting the press in on the news. Both CC and the IRL have to do better with the other drivers too.

[Indyknut]

and the crap about pit strategy being the reason she was up front is just that - she ran the same or better speeds than any of the other leaders when she was up front - and I know you are very well aware that the "fading quickly" BS you posted - intimating it was the driver experience that caused it - is a complete load of horse poop - Danica "faded" because of fuel conservation - trying to make it to the end

as far as Danica's "talent" see my post above - you obviously did not see her qualifying effort - that was as "veteran" a save as you will ever see

find something else to promote your agenda - making up crap about drivers - any drivers - talents is not the way to do it

I guess her failure then to reproduce that Indy stellar performance at other tracks is because Indy is sooo easy to drive?

Apparently so. She was a chicane at Richmond and really no better at any of the other tracks. I believe her average finishing place has dropped below 10th now.

BTW, I'm merely pointing out what I've observed after watching Danica in Atlantics for 1 1/2 years and her current IRL stint. I've only seen Legge in 2 races this year and have only heard about her abilities in the Euro racing circuits along with her test with Nunn but she clearly seems able to be aggressive and pull off moves that Danica wouldn't have tried.

[Indyfan31]

comparing taking risks in Atlantics to taking risks in an IndyCar is apples and oranges - you do not and cannot take the kind of risks in an IndyCar you can in TA - those who do try TA type risks end up in the wall

Danica's direction at present is to finish the race and gain experience - she has done that

and the crap about pit strategy being the reason she was up front is just that - she ran the same or better speeds than any of the other leaders when she was up front - and I know you are very well aware that the "fading quickly" BS you posted - intimating it was the driver experience that caused it - is a complete load of horse poop - Danica "faded" because of fuel conservation - trying to make it to the end

as far as Danica's "talent" see my post above - you obviously did not see her qualifying effort - that was as "veteran" a save as you will ever see

find something else to promote your agenda - making up crap about drivers - any drivers - talents is not the way to do it

It's nothing to get upset about CUC. TA and high speed ovals may be very different, but Indynut is right about DPs "style". She had front row starts in Atlantics too, but she quickly settled into the spot where she (or the car) felt comfortable -- which was usually top 5 on good days. Legge, on the other hand, worked her way up the field from 6th to catch the leader before he broke on the last laps.
As far as not taking risks in Indycar, I've seen Hornish make some downright banzai moves, and he only "ends up in the wall" part of the time.

[Lee Roy]

She was a chicane at Richmond . . . .

I didn't think so, and I was there. True she got lapped (I think she was only 3 laps down), but she did not seem to cause the leaders any problems due to her car control and awareness of her surroundings. Now, on the other hand, Roger Yasakawa (sp) and Jimmy Kite were chicanes. Those two were a quite a problem. Reminded me of old 'king Hiro.

[jkg]

I guess her failure then to reproduce that Indy stellar performance at other tracks is because Indy is sooo easy to drive?

Apparently so. She was a chicane at Richmond and really no better at any of the other tracks. I believe her average finishing place has dropped below 10th now.

.

You are failing to consider that Danica had 2 weeks of practice at Indy and ran well over 1,250 miles of practice, running for a team that has that track down cold. At Richmond, she had a little over 100 miles of practice, so in that sense Richmond is much tougher, especially for a rookie whose team struggles at the track.

[ICantDrive55]

http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.d.../APS/506290962

This is an AP article out of Cleveland about Katherine Legge, who won an Atlantic race in the CCWS series. It appears that Legge was very appropriate with her comments until she got asked by a reporter about Danica. Her last comment, at the end, though, is a lot of BS.

It seems true that Legge has some talent. She talked her way into an Infiniti Pro Series test with Mo Nunn before the program died. She showed well.

But sorry, winning an Atlantic race doesn't measure up to sitting on the front row and finishing fourth at Motegi, being fast and nearly getting the pole at the Indianapolis 500 and leading the race with seven to go and finishing fourth at Indy, whether Patrick posed in FHM or not.

If you wanna go for "hot," Shawna Robinson is a very atrractive lady who has competed in the NASCAR (then Winston) Cup series, a very pleasant, nice person who has never gotten good equipment. She's also a mother who took time off from her racing career to raise a family and doesn't do that stuff, she's older and she's a racer.

That Legge, although she is to be respected for her talent and grinding it out to get to the big leagues, winning an Atlantic race somehow is more important than what either Patrick or Robinson has accomplished is a lot of crap....or Janet Guthrie, or Lyn St. James or Desire Wilson.

Pretty funny, in a roundabout way, when to think your attitude towards Legge talking smack about Danica, is about the same when Danice talked smack about Sarah at the time.

How times change

[Indyknut]

Pretty funny, in a roundabout way, when to think your attitude towards Legge talking smack about Danica, is about the same when Danice talked smack about Sarah at the time.

How times change

Indeed and I can't believe I'm saying this but, considering Fisher had virtually zero time previously in an OW, RE aero car and was driving a Walker bucket, she actually showed better in her first year than Danica has already.

Of course, where is Sarah now?

[cleanupcrew]

seems Danica's other two team mates struggled at Richmond as well, although Vitor's crew threw a huge change at the car for race and made big improvement

[Ken]

clearly they are both tlaented....who is better?...i for one hope we get a chance to find out

and texan....Legges victory was covered by espn ( 1, 2, news etc) and got a story in my local paper and certainly fans at the track were definitely a buzz about her victory...and the mexican fans were aware of who she was in Monterrey....Did she garner the Buzz danica did at Indy?..of coarse not, but neither did Wheldon!

[jandj]

I didn't think so, and I was there. True she got lapped (I think she was only 3 laps down), but she did not seem to cause the leaders any problems due to her car control and awareness of her surroundings.

That's how it looked from my seats as well, Lee Roy.

[Texan]

Aww, You guys get too testy about the press coverage. So I'll go on to something else.

I think both Danny girl and Leggy Legge will never become a winner in the majors. Probably neither can hit a curve ball. Just like Sarah.