This oughta quiet the Danica bashers for a while...

[Jim Wilke]

Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach - Starting lineup:

1) S. Bourdais 1 Newman/Haas Racing, 1:06.886
2) J. Wilson 9 RuSPORT, 1:07.208 +0.322
3) B. Junqueira 2 Newman/Haas Racing, 1:07.225 +0.339
4) A. Allmendinger 10 RuSPORT, 1:07.249 +0.363
5) M. Dominguez 7 Forsythe Championship Racing, 1:07.301 +0.415
6) P. Tracy 3 Forsythe Championship Racing, 1:07.408 +0.522
7) A. Tagliani 15 Team Australia Racing, 1:07.717 +0.831
8) O. Servia 6 PKV Racing, 1:07.869 +0.983
9) W. Power 5 Team Australia Racing, 1:07.965 +1.079
10) C. da Matta 19 Dale Coyne Racing, 1:07.982 +1.096
11) A. Pizzonia 8 Rocketsports Racing, 1:08.242 +1.356
12) J. Vasser 12 PKV Racing, 1:08.246 +1.360
13) D. Clarke 14 CTE Racing - HVM, 1:08.410 +1.524
14) J. Heylen 11 Dale Coyne Racing, 1:08.641 +1.755
15) N. Philippe 4 CTE Racing - HVM 1:08.647 +1.761
16) A. Ranger 27 Mi-Jack Conquest Racing, 1:08.855 +1.969
17) K. Legge 20 PKV Racing, 1:09.254 +2.368
18) C. Zwolsman 34 Mi-Jack Conquest Racing, 1:09.554 +2.668

[Indyknut]

No, now we'll just have another girl to bash.

[Bombardier R142]

I don't see how that will quiet the Danica bashers, but I'm sure we'll see a whole new breed of malcontents, the "Legge Bashers" using it for their own nepharious purposes.

As for me, it looks like a rookie trying to get the feel for more the more powerful Champ Cars, which seems to take a while with Indycars too. Hopefully she'll get laps in and get that all valuable seat time everybody seem to think so highly of. To make me happy, all she has to do is keep it out of the tires and avoid shearing off a half-shaft on pit stops.


It is however, now open season on Andrew Ranger. He really should be faster than that.

[JSR]

Bombardier

[ray]

Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach - Starting lineup:

1) S. Bourdais 1 Newman/Haas Racing, 1:06.886
2) J. Wilson 9 RuSPORT, 1:07.208 +0.322
3) B. Junqueira 2 Newman/Haas Racing, 1:07.225 +0.339
4) A. Allmendinger 10 RuSPORT, 1:07.249 +0.363
5) M. Dominguez 7 Forsythe Championship Racing, 1:07.301 +0.415
6) P. Tracy 3 Forsythe Championship Racing, 1:07.408 +0.522
7) A. Tagliani 15 Team Australia Racing, 1:07.717 +0.831
8) O. Servia 6 PKV Racing, 1:07.869 +0.983
9) W. Power 5 Team Australia Racing, 1:07.965 +1.079
10) C. da Matta 19 Dale Coyne Racing, 1:07.982 +1.096
11) A. Pizzonia 8 Rocketsports Racing, 1:08.242 +1.356
12) J. Vasser 12 PKV Racing, 1:08.246 +1.360
13) D. Clarke 14 CTE Racing - HVM, 1:08.410 +1.524
14) J. Heylen 11 Dale Coyne Racing, 1:08.641 +1.755
15) N. Philippe 4 CTE Racing - HVM 1:08.647 +1.761
16) A. Ranger 27 Mi-Jack Conquest Racing, 1:08.855 +1.969
17) K. Legge 20 PKV Racing, 1:09.254 +2.368
18) C. Zwolsman 34 Mi-Jack Conquest Racing, 1:09.554 +2.668

What is her percentage from the pole VS Danica at St.Pete? This is her 1st race, not her second season Actually she is Quicker than 5 IRL guy's if you use math. Plus we are comparing Danica to Dario, who has not won a championship in the IRL VS Sebastion , who has won 2 CCWS championships.I need to find St. Pete qualifying from last year to compare apples to apples.

[cleanupcrew]

how about if we simply agree Ms Legge is simply a rookie - and seeminly a smart oneher inugaural big car start is a difficult and unforgiving street course - she is better being slow than wrecking

[ray]

Well, it's because Jim brought up te grid. St.Pete and Long Beach are similar. Danica in her 2nd season is 103.48% off the pole Katherene in her first CCWS race is 103.54% off the pole.The fact that Danica has more drivers behind her, than Ms. Legge, just shows the quality of the drivers, behind both. Zwolsman (last) was 103.98 % off VS Chesson who was 110.5 off the pole. 2 street courses with-in 2 sec. Now I have to do 2005 St. Pete. Thanks Jim.

[Jim Wilke]

I think Katherine is doing just fine. I'm sure her boss told her to go out, keep it out of the fence and get some seat time and bring the car home in one piece........which is pretty much what Danica was told last year.

[Turn13]

Well, it's because Jim brought up te grid. St.Pete and Long Beach are similar. Danica in her 2nd season is 103.48% off the pole Katherene in her first CCWS race is 103.54% off the pole.The fact that Danica has more drivers behind her, than Ms. Legge, just shows the quality of the drivers, behind both. Zwolsman (last) was 103.98 % off VS Chesson who was 110.5 off the pole. 2 street courses with-in 2 sec. Now I have to do 2005 St. Pete. Thanks Jim.

I think you just helped make Jim's point

[ray]

So why bring it up? She is certinally quicker on a street course than P.J. or Buddy, even Eddie.

[jdessar]

So why bring it up? She is certinally quicker on a street course than P.J. or Buddy, even Eddie.

Oh come on...that's just a crazy statement.

[Turn13]

So why bring it up? She is certinally quicker on a street course than P.J. or Buddy, even Eddie.

Read the thread title again, then

Eddie, Buddy, or P.J. who?

You surely don't mean Eddie Cheever. Kat is 26, right? At age 26 (1984), Cheever finished fourth at the Brazil GP, in his sixth year of F1 racing. Finished 16th overall. The year before (a year younger than Kat is now), he had finished 6th overall in the WDC.

http://www.cheeverracing.com/content/view/62/115/

[ray]

What have you done for me lately? Just comparing times. That is what Jim was doing? Or grid positions? Start a useless thred you get what you deserve. I have never bashed Danica or Katherine, my daughter would kick my butt. Katherine had a lower grid position on a more compititive field, facts be facts. I cannot wait to see them race together next year. It will happen.


AJ Foyt was fast at 26, so was Mario. Both could kick anyone ass. But today Danica and Kat would be quicker. Eddie needs to be a team owner, not a driver. Was he fast driving a Modus in F-3, yes. Was he quick in a Mecachrome, yes. Should he be racing now, NO.

[nascarnation]

imagine how C. Zwolsman must feel..........

[Jim Wilke]

Well, his fastest lap was disallowed because of a penalty. If that hadn't happened, he would have started 17th and Legge would have been dead last.

[Indyknut]

Hate to tell you this Jim but you'll find few CCWS people that really thought it was a good idea to bring her up to the big cars this year. I for one thought she needed another year in Atlantics.

[ray]

imagine how C. Zwolsman must feel..........

Better than PJ , or Buddy. Oh, wait, now I have to do a spread sheet on the NASCAR road courses. I doubt Michael Waltrip comes close to Danica or Katherine, percentage wise, but he is a star, NAPA and all.

[kikigirl]

imagine how C. Zwolsman must feel..........

I was about ready to post that KL wasn't the only rookie to have problems today.
She'll learn and improve....and the sooner, the better (for her sake)

[Jim Wilke]

Hate to tell you this Jim but you'll find few CCWS people that really thought it was a good idea to bring her up to the big cars this year. I for one thought she needed another year in Atlantics.

I thought that about Danica last year but she proved pretty quickly that she belonged in the bigs. There's only so much you can learn in the minors and I have a feeling that Katherine will not be dead last at the next race. It is also worth pointing out that PKV ain't the best seat on the grid. Might be the worst.

[chicanery]

stupid thread

[Turn13]

Hate to tell you this Jim but you'll find few CCWS people that really thought it was a good idea to bring her up to the big cars this year. I for one thought she needed another year in Atlantics.

True, 'knut. However, there have been an awful lot of Danica bashers on that "side", and Jim is correct that this ought to help them divert their bashes to other topics

I have never bashed Danica...

Then you don't need to feel this was directed at you, either

Also note: Jim didn't bash Kat, nor suggest that Danica was better than Kat... and I also agree with cleanupcrew... that said, KK said if she didn't perform, she was out of the seat.

What did Zwolsman get penalized for? What was his "unpenalized" time / position?

[downtowndeco]

Hate to tell you this Jim but you'll find few CCWS people that really thought it was a good idea to bring her up to the big cars this year. I for one thought she needed another year in Atlantics.

I think she is as deserving of a CCWS seat as almost any of the back half of the grid. Probably more, as she at least won some races last year.

I've always thought was the reason that some CC fans wanted to see her stay in Atlantics another year is so they could keep her on the golden "Well, at least she's won some races" pedestal. Once she dived into the deep end and raced up against the big boys (and probably fared as most rookies do) she would be "just another average driver" who just happened to be female. Like Danica. Except she didn't get numerous poles or lead at Indy.

This is no knock on Katherine. I wish her well. She seems to have talent. But Jim is right, maybe this will quiet the Danica bashers for a while.

[Turn13]

stupid thread

Naw... well, maybe just your post...

[Turn13]

Better than PJ , or Buddy.

Who??

[Jim Wilke]

What did Zwolsman get penalized for? What was his "unpenalized" time / position?

Got together with Power and the red flag effectively ended qualifying so he lost his fastest lap. He would have started 17th instead of 18th.

[Toonces]

..."Legge Bashers"...

I think these people have been around for years; heck there's a very popular show about them on HBO

It is however, now open season on Andrew Ranger. He really should be faster than that.

Is that George Michael's pal from WHAM!

[Kurt Cobain]

Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach - Starting lineup:

1) S. Bourdais 1 Newman/Haas Racing, 1:06.886
2) J. Wilson 9 RuSPORT, 1:07.208 +0.322
3) B. Junqueira 2 Newman/Haas Racing, 1:07.225 +0.339
4) A. Allmendinger 10 RuSPORT, 1:07.249 +0.363
5) M. Dominguez 7 Forsythe Championship Racing, 1:07.301 +0.415
6) P. Tracy 3 Forsythe Championship Racing, 1:07.408 +0.522
7) A. Tagliani 15 Team Australia Racing, 1:07.717 +0.831
8) O. Servia 6 PKV Racing, 1:07.869 +0.983
9) W. Power 5 Team Australia Racing, 1:07.965 +1.079
10) C. da Matta 19 Dale Coyne Racing, 1:07.982 +1.096
11) A. Pizzonia 8 Rocketsports Racing, 1:08.242 +1.356
12) J. Vasser 12 PKV Racing, 1:08.246 +1.360
13) D. Clarke 14 CTE Racing - HVM, 1:08.410 +1.524
14) J. Heylen 11 Dale Coyne Racing, 1:08.641 +1.755
15) N. Philippe 4 CTE Racing - HVM 1:08.647 +1.761
16) A. Ranger 27 Mi-Jack Conquest Racing, 1:08.855 +1.969
17) K. Legge 20 PKV Racing, 1:09.254 +2.368
18) C. Zwolsman 34 Mi-Jack Conquest Racing, 1:09.554 +2.668

Jim going to watch the race?!?!?!

[Chitownfan]

What was his "unpenalized" time / position?

I know it was 1:08 and some change. Legge was the only one in the 1:09's.

[Doc Austin]

I think Katherine is doing just fine. I'm sure her boss told her to go out, keep it out of the fence and get some seat time and bring the car home in one piece........which is pretty much what Danica was told last year.

Yes, but when Danica was fastest most of the month of May, and just missed the pole because of a tiny mistake, followed by a great save.....we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her. When she took the lead at Indianapolis under green flag conditions and led until just a few laps to go......we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her. When Danica put on a little makeup and looked pretty nice in that Peak commercial....we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her. In fact, every time it didn't go exactly as planned....we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her. Hell, any time Danica did anything right.....we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her.

No one can argue that the Danica bashers were ruthless.

Now, I can't really wish anything but the best for Katherine, but it does seems a little odd that when Katherine is fighting to be next to last slowest........ champcar fans don't seem to feel like she deserves the same sort of scrutiny.

I'de like to see both women do well, and you'll never find anything I've ever written that's negative about Katherine (use the search feature). Allot of people just aren't that fair about it.

[Kurt Cobain]

Yes, but when Danica was fastest most of the month of May, and just missed the pole because of a tiny mistake, followed by a great save.....we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her. When she took the lead at Indianapolis under green flag conditions and led until just a few laps to go......we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her. When Danica put on a little makeup and looked pretty nice in that Peak commercial....we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her. In fact, every time it didn't go exactly as planned....we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her. Hell, any time Danica did anything right.....we heard from Danica bashers everything that was wrong with her.

No one can argue that the Danica bashers were ruthless.

Now, I can't really wish anything but the best for Katherine, but it does seems a little odd that when Katherine is fighting to be next to last slowest........ champcar fans don't seem to feel like she deserves the same sort of scrutiny.

I'de like to see both women do well, and you'll never find anything I've ever written that's negative about Katherine (use the search feature). Allot of people just aren't that fair about it.

You speak the truth Doc. You've been fair with the ladies who drive. Not all of us can say that. Me included.

I DO think Katherine was brought up too soon. I think she needed another year in Atlantics, but... I'm not a big Danica fan either. Never have been even when she was in Atlantics, to which she really didn't impress. Needless to say she's done better here (IRL).

You might find it interesting though, that one of her (Danica's) biggest bashers was none other than Panther owner John Barnes who said she was "an idiot" as far as he was concerned. I'm sure however he's given her praise too, but I found that quote interesting, especially since Barnes usually doesn't pull any punches.