Turbocharged diesels?

[Teej]

Still very impressed with Audi's R10 TD1 and it's win at Le Mans. My stepbrother owns his own shop and I talked to him about it. He told me Mercedes is also really big in the turbocharged diesel market.

My question is could this be a new wave of the future in motorsports?

I realize it is not an original concept as diesels have run in the Indianapolis 500 in the past. Why was this technology abandoned?

[roach]

...I realize it is not an original concept as diesels have run in the Indianapolis 500 in the past. Why was this technology abandoned?

In the case of the 1952 Cummins car it was weight. It was basically a Cummins diesel (truck engine) laid on its side, and if you've ever seen one - they are massive.

roach

[Fueler]

The turbo diesels at Le Mans basically took advantage of some new rules that allowed them significantly better fuel economy while producing roughly the same (or slightly better) horsepower as their gasoline counterparts. The difference was in the area of three pit stops less.

Those rules will be modifed quickly to keep other, non-diesel manufacturers interested in competing, probably by restricting turbo inlet size. Rule changes will prevent diesels from becoming predominant, but they certainly proved they have a place in competition.

Audi has a history of exploiting the rules of a series to their unique advantage, and then having their cars outlawed as superiority is demonstrated. See their Trans Am, and Pikes Peak history.

[nascarnation]

Given the economics of diesels in European cars, the Audi deal was a marketing and technical masterpiece, IMHO. The noise level, clean exhaust, and reliability were very impressive.

[Jakester]

The Audi actually made 5 fewer stops than the Pescarolo Courage.

Audi makes note of the volume of diesel Audis sold in Europe, especially France.

As much or more than the noise about ethanol and hybrids, I think diesels should have a bright future as fuel prices increase. The US is finally cleaning up the diesel fuel that has precluded the latest advances in diesels from coming to our shores.

An example: in 'real world' testing, the Jetta TDI significantly beat the Toyota Prius mileage with the same performance. Plus the Jetta TDI doesn't have the additional up front cost of the hybrid ($4000+) nor the downstream cost of eventually replacing a battery pack at another $4000 or so dollars. And with the coming cleaner diesels, the next Jetta TDI will improve mileage and power even more.

[AceRacing]

Once people in the states realize that the diesels of today are nothing at all like the 1980 Chevy Caprice Diesel wagon that their uncle Bob owned, The TDI's can make more inroads here. Everyone in the states thinks diesels are smelly, slow smoky pieces of junk. Well, witness the R-10.

[indyrjc]

[QUOTE=Fueler]
Those rules will be modifed quickly to keep other, non-diesel manufacturers interested in competing, probably by restricting turbo inlet size. Rule changes will prevent diesels from becoming predominant, but they certainly proved they have a place in competition.
QUOTE]

Maybe so, but maybe the rules will last for another year or so, too. Peugeot (of France) is entering their own version of the diesel endurance racing car in 2007 and have announced a multi-year effort to get a win in their home race.

[SportscarBruce]

As much or more than the noise about ethanol and hybrids, I think diesels should have a bright future as fuel prices increase. The US is finally cleaning up the diesel fuel that has precluded the latest advances in diesels from coming to our shores.

An example: in 'real world' testing, the Jetta TDI significantly beat the Toyota Prius mileage with the same performance. Plus the Jetta TDI doesn't have the additional up front cost of the hybrid ($4000+) nor the downstream cost of eventually replacing a battery pack at another $4000 or so dollars. And with the coming cleaner diesels, the next Jetta TDI will improve mileage and power even more.

Imagine what a TDI hybrid could achieve in MPG and emissions.

[nascarnation]

Imagine what a TDI hybrid could achieve in MPG and emissions.

We build them every day, right here in Indianapolis
http://www.allisontransmission.com/p...e/epsystem.jsp

[flatlander_48]

Assuming the fuel is essentially the same as what you would run a passenger car on, a diesel race car would have the added benefit of having a greatly reduced fire hazard. Diesel fuel needs to get up over 380F in order to have the same volatility as gasoline. Granted, race car fires are rare these days, but fuel cells can be ruptured if the accident is bad enough.

[Ted]

NASCAR should run diesels in the truck series.

[Marc P. Gregoire]

I'd love to see what say, a body such as the GM EV1, with a coeffecient of drag somewhere around 0.19, with a small, effecient turbodiesel connected to a CVT could do.

[lkchris]

Everyone in the states thinks diesels are smelly, slow smoky pieces of junk. Well, witness the R-10.

Witness our E320CDI. It's a rocketship.

BTW, Peugeot will be at LeMans 2007 with a diesel racer. Villeneuve and Bourdais driving.

[Pete366]

Unfortunately, the price of a diesel engine in a car or truck is going up from $2000 US to $7000(for over the road tractors) in 2007 above the previous cost due to Diesel particulate filters/emission controls mandated by the Government, US and other. The other thing that happens with diesel fuel is it rises and falls with the seasons due to refiners can make diesel fuel and/or home heating oil and since its a byproduct of gasoline refining, there is a finite amount available and the season make the price go up and down. Finally, most people don't put enough miles on to offset the higher cost of the vehicle and diesel fuel to make it worthwhile until the price of gasoline goes high enuf. Unfortunately it all comes back down to economics which are different in Europe than the US

[dog-ring]

Unfortunately, the price of a diesel engine in a car or truck is going up from $2000 US to $7000(for over the road tractors) in 2007 above the previous cost due to Diesel particulate filters/emission controls mandated by the Government, US and other. The other thing that happens with diesel fuel is it rises and falls with the seasons due to refiners can make diesel fuel and/or home heating oil and since its a byproduct of gasoline refining, there is a finite amount available and the season make the price go up and down. Finally, most people don't put enough miles on to offset the higher cost of the vehicle and diesel fuel to make it worthwhile until the price of gasoline goes high enuf. Unfortunately it all comes back down to economics which are different in Europe than the US

Good points !

[Jim Wilke]

NASCAR should run diesels in the truck series.

They're still using carburetors and pushrods. I expect them to adopt diesels about the time I am buying a hydrogen powered ornithopter.

[Ted]

Opel, a GM company, knows a thing or two about diesels...
A few years ago they set 17 world records.


"After the trials were over, Opel could successfully note no fewer than 17 new world records for special cars with turbocharged diesel engines in the 1100 to 1499cc class, including:

An average speed of 141 mph over 24 hours (at an average 31.4 mpg)
Top speed of 160.2 mph
Best fuel consumption in Economy run: 111.2 mpg "

http://www.hydro.com/en/press_room/n...speedster.html


Funny how it seems like some people still think the diesels are old news. They might just be the future!

[CamKing]

I must be getting eco-friendly. I'm designing a whole line of cams for the Duramax deisel engine.
Of course, I don't know how eco-friendly 1,500hp street trucks are going to be.