Barnes on merger

**Jim Wilke** · 08-23-2006 11:26 PM

From an IRL presser today:

Can you see the two split open wheel sides getting back together, and should they?

BARNES: At this point in time, I don't see a lot that they bring to the table. They have four or five cars that are funded by sponsors, the rest are funded by their league. I think we've got a great series and we have a great engine manufacturer in Honda.

Would it be nice for those guys to come and run over here - sure. Should we give up anything to get that done? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

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Would it be easier to gain sponsors in a unified league?

BARNES: I think there would be a window of about six months that we would have to really gain momentum. If that fails, then it would be hard to sustain any open wheel racing.

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**Racewriter** · 08-23-2006 11:29 PM

This is the same John Barnes who was crying the blues and talking about how badly a merger was needed just a few months ago, before he found the money to run this season.

**Cygni** · 08-23-2006 11:43 PM

The irony of barnes talking about other teams without sponsors is quite funny.

**Rommey** · 08-24-2006 12:15 AM

"Should we give up anything to get that done? "
Who's this WE that Barnes is talking about?? Last I remember, he was a CAR owner and not a league owner. Exactly what would a car/team owner have to "give up" should a merger take place?

**AdamM** · 08-24-2006 12:42 AM

This is the same John Barnes who was crying the blues and talking about how badly a merger was needed just a few months ago, before he found the money to run this season.

Yep.

It's really cool that the big dollar sponsor on the side of the Panther car has the exact same name as the team.

**Powercat** · 08-24-2006 01:04 AM

I find it ironic that people who lament the financial struggles of "original IRL teams" seem to be quite eager to see Barnes & Panther fail.

**millrace** · 08-24-2006 01:21 AM

Not me man. I want Panther to succeed!! I want Vitor to win baby!!
I want to see the yellow or platinum Pennzoil back. The orange is kind of cool too though.
Panther is legit- they gotta stick around because they have the stuff it takes to win and winners stick around.

**AdamM** · 08-24-2006 01:29 AM

I find it ironic that people who lament the financial struggles of "original IRL teams" seem to be quite eager to see Barnes & Panther fail.

Who is talking about Panther failing? Folks are just correctly pointing out how stupid it is for Barnes to rag ChampCar for unsponsored cars, while his own ride carries sponsorship from that large multi-national corporation named Panther Racing.

IMO one of the problems with many IRL (and CC) fans is that they are so focused on wizzing on the other side that they overlook the garbage their own side is trying to pass off. It makes more sense to me if the folks on either side hold their own organizations feet to the fire and let the other guys worry about their own series.

**tbyars** · 08-24-2006 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Racewriter

This is the same John Barnes who was crying the blues and talking about how badly a merger was needed just a few months ago, before he found the money to run this season.

Racewriter, I believe you are mistaken. All of the quotes I can remember from Barnes since the time the AutoWeek story came out have been VERY anti-merger. Slap my hand if I am wrong, but if there have been others where he took a different tone, I certainly don't remember them.

**OWNUT** · 08-24-2006 02:39 AM

The name of the team is Lincoln Tech? I thought it was Panther racing.

Originally Posted by AdamM

Yep.

It's really cool that the big dollar sponsor on the side of the Panther car has the exact same name as the team.

**flatlander_48** · 08-24-2006 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Wilke

From an IRL presser today:

Can you see the two split open wheel sides getting back together, and should they?

BARNES: At this point in time, I don't see a lot that they bring to the table. They have four or five cars that are funded by sponsors, the rest are funded by their league. I think we've got a great series and we have a great engine manufacturer in Honda.

Well, he's either running out of his own wallet OR ??

**jkentner15** · 08-24-2006 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Racewriter

This is the same John Barnes who was crying the blues and talking about how badly a merger was needed just a few months ago, before he found the money to run this season.

link? I don't recall this.

**indyracefan** · 08-24-2006 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by AdamM

IMO one of the problems with many IRL (and CC) fans is that they are so focused on wizzing on the other side that they overlook the garbage their own side is trying to pass off. It makes more sense to me if the folks on either side hold their own organizations feet to the fire and let the other guys worry about their own series.

...a good start for that might be racing forums, don't you think?!

**SnakePitLounge** · 08-24-2006 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Racewriter

This is the same John Barnes who was crying the blues and talking about how badly a merger was needed just a few months ago, before he found the money to run this season.

It was Gary Pedigo first to all that said a merger would help find sponsorship. Panther, more particulary John Barnes, has been one of the biggest critics of a merger. When you think anti-merger camp in the IRL, Foyt and Barnes would be the two.

**flatlander_48** · 08-24-2006 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by SnakePitLounge

It was Gary Pedigo first to all that said a merger would help find sponsorship. Panther, more particulary John Barnes, has been one of the biggest critics of a merger. When you think anti-merger camp in the IRL, Foyt and Barnes would be the two.

Interesting, considering that they have both lost a lot of ground to most of the other competitors in recent years after time at the top.

**SnakePitLounge** · 08-24-2006 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by flatlander_48

Interesting, considering that they have both lost a lot of ground to most of the other competitors in recent years after time at the top.

Panther hasn't lost any ground. You need to tune in and watch races before you make uneducated comments. Meria has been running in the front all year long.

Secondly, they're both legacy IRL teams. It's not hard to see why they're against merger

**Disciple** · 08-24-2006 08:53 AM

John Barnes and his entire team have long been about my favorite in the IRL. He is a credit to the league, and I hope we never lose him or the team.

**Shadow101** · 08-24-2006 09:23 AM

What is really, amusing, is as pointed out by many astute observers, is Barnes calling out underfunded or non-funded ChampCar teams when apparently overlooking his own, and other IRL operations weak financial positions. Hell, a team owned by an Indy 500 winner and "A" list celebrity, with an Indy 500 win on its resume and the foresight to have inked the most noticeable driver in OW racing in quite some time cannot even find a sponsor. Things aren't so peachy keen in your series either John.

One must also admire the contradictory statements: "Would it be nice for those guys to come and run over here - sure. Should we give up anything to get that done? ABSOLUTELY NOT!" and "I think there would be a window of about six months that we would have to really gain momentum. If that fails, then it would be hard to sustain any open wheel racing."

The last sentence is the keystone statement of this decade long b.s., but apparently its significance is lost by even those with a vested interest in what is going on.

Oh, and here's a link I think we can all agree on: http://www.tvparty.com/70lance.html

**Disciple** · 08-24-2006 09:29 AM

Those yelping the most loudly about 'merger' usually end up being either associated with or fans of champcar. Again as if they have some divine right. Yelping or not, I still can't find a plausible business case.

**shawn67** · 08-24-2006 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Defender

Those yelping the most loudly about 'merger' usually end up being either associated with or fans of champcar. Again as if they have some divine right. Yelping or not, I still can't find a plausible business case.

Remember D...nothing that Indycar does can ever be perceived as "right" or "correct" because fans of champcar view the IRL as an uneccesary and illegitimate organization in the first place.

**SnakePitLounge** · 08-24-2006 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Shadow101

What is really, amusing, is as pointed out by many astute observers, is Barnes calling out underfunded or non-funded ChampCar teams when apparently overlooking his own, and other IRL operations weak financial positions. Hell, a team owned by an Indy 500 winner and "A" list celebrity, with an Indy 500 win on its resume and the foresight to have inked the most noticeable driver in OW racing in quite some time cannot even find a sponsor. Things aren't so peachy keen in your series either John.

One must also admire the contradictory statements: "Would it be nice for those guys to come and run over here - sure. Should we give up anything to get that done? ABSOLUTELY NOT!" and "I think there would be a window of about six months that we would have to really gain momentum. If that fails, then it would be hard to sustain any open wheel racing."

The last sentence is the keystone statement of this decade long b.s., but apparently its significance is lost by even those with a vested interest in what is going on.

Oh, and here's a link I think we can all agree on: http://www.tvparty.com/70lance.html

I think you missed John's point. He's not saying IRL is in superior shape, he's saying why merge with another weak series. If you have a bad investment and want to improve it, you don't through it in another bad investment.
There's a lot of room for improvment for the IRL, but merging with CCWS won't fix the problem. You really think the existing IRL fans want half of their races on RR/SC? IRL have lost fans by adding 3!!!!!

**JoeBob** · 08-24-2006 10:22 AM

If Tony George was paying my bills, I'd be saying the exact same thing.

**flatlander_48** · 08-24-2006 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by SnakePitLounge

Panther hasn't lost any ground. You need to tune in and watch races before you make uneducated comments. Meria has been running in the front all year long.

Secondly, they're both legacy IRL teams. It's not hard to see why they're against merger

You don't know how many races I watch. It's probably at least as many as you do. Panther hasn't really been at the front since Hornish left. As close as they came was last year with Scheckter, but he couldn't capitalize on it. As an organization:

2003: 3 wins, 393 Laps Led (all to Hornish)
2004: 0 wins, 32 Laps Led
2005: 1 wins, 388 Laps Led (all but 20 to Scheckter)
2006: 0 wins, 83 Laps Led (through 12 of 14 events)

While Meira and Panther have done well, their form is NOT where Panther was. In 2003, Hornish finished 5th in the standings. Vitor will likely finish 5th also, but his season looks entirely different. Going from 8 wins and 2 chanpionships in 2 seasons to 4 wins and no championships in 3.86 seasons is losing ground. Do the math. For the resources that they have, Panther is doing OK. But, they are not as they were. If there were a merger, they would slot in after a larger field that included Newman-Haas and Forsythe at the very least and possibly RuSport and PKV. Panther would be even further from the front by the end of the season. That's why Barnes is against a merger. That and losing his unnamed benefactor...

**MarkDonohueFan** · 08-24-2006 10:24 AM

The behavior of Champ Car fans when they misguidedly look down their noses at the IRL reminds me of the group of naked guys standing on one side of the river who were laughing at the group of clothed guys standing on the other side.

One of the clothed guys was so puzzled that he yelled to the naked guys, "Hey, what are YOU guys laughing at? YOU'RE, well, naked".

The leader of the group of naked guys piped down from laughing and said "Yeah....but the fifth guy over there on the right in the cheap fishing vest carrying that case of *giggle* domestic beer *giggle* who got out of the American *giggle* pick up truck *giggle*....his fly is halfway down!".

Barnes is right - with each passing day, Champ Car has less and less to offer any deal. Yet, their fans have the arrogance to look down their noses at the IRL for ticky tack stuff when they have so many more problems in their own backyard to deal with.

**jkentner15** · 08-24-2006 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by JoeBob

If Tony George was paying my bills, I'd be saying the exact same thing.

Yeah, they must have sold a bunch of equipment and found some sponsor through the year for no reason, huh?

Cheever and Hemelgarn must be getting some money too, right?

**flatlander_48** · 08-24-2006 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Defender

Those yelping the most loudly about 'merger' usually end up being either associated with or fans of champcar. Again as if they have some divine right. Yelping or not, I still can't find a plausible business case.

Since the arrival of the DP-01 (which must be the noisest vaporware ever), I agree with you. The Window is rapidly closing.

**Doc Austin** · 08-24-2006 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by flatlander_48

Since the arrival of the DP-01 (which must be the noisest vaporware ever), I agree with you.

It's certainly the noseiest.

The Window is rapidly closing.

Stick a fork in the merger and move on.

**flatlander_48** · 08-24-2006 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Doc Austin

Stick a fork in the merger and move on.

I thought I said that?

**Doc Austin** · 08-24-2006 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by flatlander_48

I thought I said that?

Cool! Cycling is great and the merger is toast. Next thing you know we'll be getting married.

Now, something important: blonds, brunettes or redheads?