Question about Detroit Grand Prix 'ownership"?

[Jakester]

Per the latest articles on Detroit,

The race's return was spearheaded by local businessman Roger Penske and the event will be promoted by the Downtown Detroit Partnership so that all money earned will go to the city.

Announcements at a 'get-reacquainted party' for volunteers regarding a large amount of concrete pouring were made by a senior vice president of Penske Corporation.

So who owns Detroit? Penske or Downtown Detroit Partnership?

"money earned"? Does that mean profits, which will be unlikely for the first years of the reborn Detroit Grand Prix?

[aportinga]

Not to rip this apart but there are many obstacles to this. Firstly there is a demographic problem locally. Secondly all 3 manufactures are in a pickle these days making Detroit not the best of places to market a race that will have enough difficulty to get going as it is.

IMO this is a quick fix to/addition to the schedule which Penske is directing 100%. That's financially great for the IRL as they probably will have no obligation. None the less I think this is bound to fail - there is just too much non-race related issues in this neck of the woods.

And believe me - I'd be saying the same thing about CCWS had they decided to run there.

[ptistheboss]

Wow it looks like Penske has brought everything that was evil in CART to the IRL. This is just amazing. All profits wil go to the city? Aren't they funding this thing?

I bet they have a pop off valve controversy too. hahaha.

[Indyknut]

A race with the only engine manufacturer being Honda, is being run in the city that's home to the big three. Not only is that seem odd but the fact that Detroit will be having to fund some of this is really out there. Besides police, fire, and the traffic logictics you've also got the big cleanup and setup. How does a city in financial dire straights that Detroit is apparently in justify spending this kind of money and allocating whats needed to run this race?

For all anyone knows, money wise, this race may not turn a dime.

[flatlander_48]

A race with the only engine manufacturer being Honda, is being run in the city that's home to the big three. Not only is that seem odd but the fact that Detroit will be having to fund some of this is really out there. Besides police, fire, and the traffic logictics you've also got the big cleanup and setup. How does a city in financial dire straights that Detroit is apparently in justify spending this kind of money and allocating whats needed to run this race?

For all anyone knows, money wise, this race may not turn a dime.

Mr. Wilke, Telephone for Mr. Wilke...

[Tara]

the Downtown Detroit Partnership

..but the DDP isn't the city of Detroit, its a collection of companies who donate money to support an event that will benefit Detroit. Why are you phoning Jim.

Because you don't understand the words you read?

[flyingstart]

Wow, the critics are scurrying out of the woodwork, imagine that.

[Jim Wilke]

Mr. Wilke, Telephone for Mr. Wilke...

Call Indyknut. He's the one who made the claim, perhaps he has the hard numbers.

[Jakester]

Jim,
I think some of us are just wondering why this unclear arrangement is not being placed under the same level of scrutiny as, say, San Jose. You know, fair and balanced, as Fox News likes to put it.

Things like:
If Detroit loses money, who will foot that bill, DDP?
Is there a separate, limited liability corporation being set up for the Detroit Grand Prix to shelter individuals or groups from any liabilities that might result from the event?

Aren't you interested in these sort of things?

[irloyal]

Jim,
I think some of us are just wondering why this unclear arrangement is not being placed under the same level of scrutiny as, say, San Jose. You know, fair and balanced, as Fox News likes to put it.

Things like:
If Detroit loses money, who will foot that bill, DDP?
Is there a separate, limited liability corporation being set up for the Detroit Grand Prix to shelter individuals or groups from any liabilities that might result from the event?

Aren't you interested in these sort of things?

I would be interested if Mr. Penske had a history of litigation regarding potentially fleecing shareholders of his corporations of money, or questionable timing when excercising options, or shell-game ownership schemes. Get back to us with those sort of details please

[Jakester]

Mr Penske (as is DDP) past dealings are not the subject of these questions.

The legal and financial arrangements of the 2007 Detroit Grand Prix is.

There is dirt to be dug on both of these organizations, but I'll not go there as it's not germane to the discussion.

[MarkDonohueFan]

I thought I was clear about this yesterday, but I guess not....

Detroit Downtown Partnership is a private, not-for-profit that works with the City of Detroit for the cause of developing the downtown area's major events as an economic development tool for the people of Detroit. All of their funding is private, corporate support and because DDP is a charitable arm under federal law, the contributions are deductible for the corporations and private donors.

DDP promotes this race (along with the Super Bowl last year - they did a good job on that one, too). For any event they promote and develop, because the costs are handled through the charitable arm (DDP), the revenues (both net and tax revenues beyond the event) flow to the city's general fund upon agreement with DDP. That is a requirement to achieve federal deductibility.

This is nowhere near comparable to San Jose. That was direct taxpayer funds combined with loans from a charity. San Jose would have been smart to have a set-up like DDP because it gives incentive to the private sector to develop their communities within a private and deductible setting. It is the fishing pole, not the fish (as was San Jose).

Penske, the automakers, and other corporate citizens of Detroit will donate the cash for the set-up and deduct it; Detroit will reap the revenues from the event (if any) as revenue comparable to sales taxes. All Detroit has to do is make Belle Isle available on a $1 lease and meet the contracted standards for public safety protection and waste management. Any loss would be incurred by DDP. Very little risk for the city and likely a high reward.

[Richard Kimble]

Not to rip this apart but there are many obstacles to this. Firstly there is a demographic problem locally. Secondly all 3 manufactures are in a pickle these days making Detroit not the best of places to market a race that will have enough difficulty to get going as it is.

IMO this is a quick fix to/addition to the schedule which Penske is directing 100%. That's financially great for the IRL as they probably will have no obligation. None the less I think this is bound to fail - there is just too much non-race related issues in this neck of the woods.

And believe me - I'd be saying the same thing about CCWS had they decided to run there.

I would agree and think that almost EVERY street race loses money and is ''bound to fail''.
Heck, even the great LBGP and Molson Indy couldn't make it work, financially.

Kinda puts one of ''our'' series in a bit o' a pickle, doesn't it ,in terms of future viability?

[Jim Wilke]

Mr Penske (as is DDP) past dealings are not the subject of these questions.

The legal and financial arrangements of the 2007 Detroit Grand Prix is.

There is dirt to be dug on both of these organizations, but I'll not go there as it's not germane to the discussion.

You and Indyknut need to get out your shovels and get to work.

[cleanupcrew]

it took all of about 30 seconds to find the info on DDP

for those issuing "challenges" to others - that isn't the way it works here - if you want to challengfe you dig up your own facts and present them here

all I see is a bunch of lazy whiners - who only want to attack and not contribute - get off your butts and do your own research - make at least a minimal effort to present your own cases - and knock off the personal attacks

here - for all these lazy folks - I'll help you get started

http://www.downtowndetroit.org/ddp/06_annual_report.pdf

I expect to see a post from each of those who "challenged" others to do their research - with intelligent comment on this topic .....

[ICantDrive55]

it took all of about 30 seconds to find the info on DDP

for those issuing "challenges" to others - that isn't the way it works here - if you want to challengfe you dig up your own facts and present them here

all I see is a bunch of lazy whiners - who only want to attack and not contribute - get off your butts and do your own research - make at least a minimal effort to present your own cases - and knock off the personal attacks

here - for all these lazy folks - I'll help you get started

http://www.downtowndetroit.org/ddp/06_annual_report.pdf

I expect to see a post from each of those who "challenged" others to do their research - with intelligent comment on this topic .....

When others make wild assumptions and generalizations, its up to THOSE people to back up what they say, not the other way around.

[cleanupcrew]

re-read the thread and perhaps the second timne around you'll be able to comment intelligently on it

my comments are directed at those who are challenging Wilke and others - not about claims the he or others have made - but about things these few want investigated

and instead of getting off their lazy arses they just post insults

if you or any one else wants info on the Detroit race details then go look it up yourself and post your thoughts here - then we can discuss them ....

[Jakester]

Already been to the DDP website and looked at their "annual report". Not a lot of hard financial info there. But DDP does appear to be an organization that is focused on improving Detroit. I'm not asking about DDP's integrity nor am I challenging it.

One will note that the DDP is only 1 year old and is the 'merger' of two other organizations GDP and DD inc.

The annual report holds no info on the Detroit Grand Prix. The Detroit Grand Prix website is not up yet, there's the volunteer website. Web searches turn up only minimal info, and that any 'returns' will go to the city. What those 'returns' are is undefined.

Sorry, CuC, I feel I asked just as relevant a questions as another poster does about exclusively CC subjects.

Did I have an agenda, yes. But I have reasonable questions too. And I couched those questions in the proper "how you say it".

I haven't done as some, making claims about people and trying to dirty their images...

[Indyknut]

Call Indyknut. He's the one who made the claim, perhaps he has the hard numbers.

I made no claims. Who's paying for everything I listed? Are you certain the city isn't out a dime on this?

I've yet to hear of a single street race that didn't involve a financial involvement by the hosting city in some way shape or form, even if it means utilizing city services such as police and fire departments or trash and street services.

[Cosworth]

I would be interested if Mr. Penske had a history of litigation regarding potentially fleecing shareholders of his corporations of money, or questionable timing when exercising options, or shell-game ownership schemes. Get back to us with those sort of details please

The telecommunications industry, once a safe stock haven for “widows and orphans,” became a gigantic poker game during the late 1990s, a competitive, high-growth business drawing billions of dollars of fresh capital. Supported by bullish Wall Street analysts and investment banks eager to reap big stock-offering fees, industry executives helped the pot grow bigger and bigger with talk of telecom’s endless growth possibilities. Then, by the hundreds, they folded their hands at what turns out to have been the peak.


Starting in 1997, telecom insiders directly cashed out over $14.2 billion in shares . . . . Add in shares sold by venture capitalists, executives’ trusts and private investment vehicles, and the number soars to roughly $18 billion.On August 25, 2002, the New York Times published a list of the one hundred largest telecom “bubble beneficiaries” individual executives and corporate insiders of telecom companies that had successfully “cashed out” before the collapse. The five largest sellers and their profits from sales of company stock were listed as follows:

Philip F. Anschutz, Qwest, $1,453,000,000
John C. Malone, AT&T, $340,151,649


Kevin N. Kalkhoven, JDS Uniphase, $245,910,906
Joseph P. Nacchio, Qwest, $226,700,000
John T. Chambers, Cisco Systems, $223,479,300




The twelve top sellers each received over $100 million from sales of their company’s stock. The ninety intermediate names on the list—those neither in the top five nor the bottom five—had profits ranging from nearly $200 million down to a little over $10 million.If one goes to the bottom of the list, from the ninety-fifth to the one hundredth top seller, the list is as follows:


Betsy J. Bernard, Qwest, $10,600,000
Bruce D. Day, JDS Uniphase, $10,307,160

Kevin J. O

’Hara, Level 3 Communications, $10,288,102

James F. Gibbons, Cisco Systems, $10,060,154
Blake O. Fisher, Jr., McLeodUSA, $9,554,985

Most, if not all, of the one hundred sellers in this list were disposing of shares they had acquired through stock grants or options received from their corporations for virtually nothing at the height of the telecom boom.The principal losers were tens of thousands of small individual investors who wrongly assumed that the telecom industry would be the wave of the future and continued to purchase telecom shares during the “bubble.” This “massive transfer of wealth”from small investors to telecom officers and directors must surely be one of the greatest transfers of wealth that ever occurred over a three and one-half year period during a time of peace.

[Indyknut]

from small investors to telecom officers and directors must surely be one of the greatest transfers of wealth that ever occurred over a three and one-half year period during a time of peace.

Lets not forget all the E-commerce companies that bellied up in the late 90's that never made a dime, took investors from triple digit returns to worthless penny stock. I believe the IRL once had a few of those .com's on the sidepods on quite a few cars as well as a series sponsor.

Just shows you need to do your research before investing.

[Indyknut]

You and Indyknut need to get out your shovels and get to work.

I just reviewed the DDP website, as painfully slow as it loaded.
Lots of pretty pictures but nothing there stating that the DDP removes the city from obligations of paying for extra police protection, fire, trash service and street services for an event like this. It may help it but nothing there to say it pays for it. What it does do, like many of these organizations in cities across the country, is provide council and support to help build "fluff" in Downtown areas that a city in tough financial conditions, couldn't otherwise pay for. This in turn, is supposed to make the city more appealing to outsiders and create a desire to return or make the city a home or create a desire amounst suburbanites, who may not consider the DT area appealing, another option for entertainment.

Nothing new here. This is exactly the kind of organization you're going to want to be in contact with if you're wanting to run a street race in a city. These are the guys you have to sell it to. In this case, RP is part of the organization.

[cleanupcrew]

a lot less directed at you jake than others .....

Already been to the DDP website and looked at their "annual report". Not a lot of hard financial info there. But DDP does appear to be an organization that is focused on improving Detroit. I'm not asking about DDP's integrity nor am I challenging it.

One will note that the DDP is only 1 year old and is the 'merger' of two other organizations GDP and DD inc.

The annual report holds no info on the Detroit Grand Prix. The Detroit Grand Prix website is not up yet, there's the volunteer website. Web searches turn up only minimal info, and that any 'returns' will go to the city. What those 'returns' are is undefined.

Sorry, CuC, I feel I asked just as relevant a questions as another poster does about exclusively CC subjects.

Did I have an agenda, yes. But I have reasonable questions too. And I couched those questions in the proper "how you say it".

I haven't done as some, making claims about people and trying to dirty their images...

[cleanupcrew]

I just reviewed the DDP website, as painfully slow as it loaded.
Lots of pretty pictures but nothing there stating that the DDP removes the city from obligations of paying for extra police protection, fire, trash service and street services for an event like this. It may help it but nothing there to say it pays for it. What it does do, like many of these organizations in cities across the country, is provide council and support to help build "fluff" in Downtown areas that a city in tough financial conditions, couldn't otherwise pay for. This in turn, is supposed to make the city more appealing to outsiders and create a desire to return or make the city a home or create a desire amounst suburbanites, who may not consider the DT area appealing, another option for entertainment.

Nothing new here. This is exactly the kind of organization you're going to want to be in contact with if you're wanting to run a street race in a city. These are the guys you have to sell it to. In this case, RP is part of the organization.

yep - and - while there may be some - by all indications there appears no huge City subsidy

again - not saying tehre isnt any - just that it sure appears through DDP that it is being done by private sector ....

[Jakester]

What the heck does Cosworth's post have to do with the Detroit Grand Prix or the Detroit Downtown Partnership?

again - not saying tehre isnt any - just that it sure appears through DDP that it is being done by private sector ....

Looking a bit more closely at the DDP annual report, there appears to be quite a bit of linkage between DDP programs and public funding.

[dreamracer]

A street race in detriot would make considerable sense if the venue is appropriate and there were a US auto manufacturer interested in competing or sponsoring the racing. NIether it totally the case, thusly increasing the challenge.

That said, I think this race could be good for the city. Roger Penske does things the right way, and I expect no less from him on this.

Make no mistake though, this will be a challenge to make succeed in the long run. If anyone can do it, Penske can.