Head of Grand-Am comments on attendence

[OPMoney]

Posting his comments I saw on another message board:

Per Roger Edmondson President of the Grand-AM series:

"Most of our track promoters do not publish attendance figures. I note that some series and some tracks do. Unfortunately, I also see and hear some numbers that are so out of touch with reality that they make truthful numbers seem woefully insignificant. I think sometimes folks lose sight of the fact that sponsors spend money and invest in events based upon figures that may very well be fraudulent. Newspapers and broadcast entities have to verify their distribution, listeners, or viewership, to justify their advertising prices. It would be real interesting to see the adjustments that would certainly follow any such requirement for truthful and verifiable attendance numbers in motor sports."

[ptistheboss]

Does he really want to know Grand-Am numbers? Grand-Am stand alone events pratically have negative attendance.

[Doc Austin]

Grand-Am stand alone events pratically have negative attendance.

Which is fine because the teams and the series is healthy. Grand American doesn't need whiney "fans" trying to tear everything down just because they feel like they are disinfranchised "customers."

All Grand American needs is healthy teams, and they've got them.....plenty of them.

Deal with it. Get used to Grand American being around and get used to them not caring what people who aren't involved think.

[Spike]

All Grand American needs is healthy teams, and they've got them.....plenty of them.

You've just described what is known as Club Racing.

[AceRacing]

Which is fine because the teams and the series is healthy. Grand American doesn't need whiney "fans" trying to tear everything down just because they feel like they are disinfranchised "customers."

All Grand American needs is healthy teams, and they've got them.....plenty of them.

Deal with it. Get used to Grand American being around and get used to them not caring what people who aren't involved think.

Just ask Finlay Motorsports how healthy things are, along with Cheever and SAMAX. Please, Doc, they had to up the Grand Am Cup entry fees this year to provide more track time, and then got a title sponsor and THEN took all of their TV coverage away. Great way to grow the future of the sport. They don't need fans at the track?

[Richard Kimble]

Posting his comments I saw on another message board:

Per Roger Edmondson President of the Grand-AM series:

"Most of our track promoters do not publish attendance figures. I note that some series and some tracks do. Unfortunately, I also see and hear some numbers that are so out of touch with reality that they make truthful numbers seem woefully insignificant. I think sometimes folks lose sight of the fact that sponsors spend money and invest in events based upon figures that may very well be fraudulent. Newspapers and broadcast entities have to verify their distribution, listeners, or viewership, to justify their advertising prices. It would be real interesting to see the adjustments that would certainly follow any such requirement for truthful and verifiable attendance numbers in motor sports."

yeah, Roger Edmondson, my hero

Fits right into the ''American OW is a fraud'' thread. How timely.

I tell you, the BS being spouted is starting to effect my enjoyment as a fan, and this is compounded by the sycophant fans that parrot the company line.
If they just raced, ignored the attendance BS, ignored the ''were better than'' BS, ignored the ''major announcement'' BS, the sport would be fundamentally better off, with more effort on the racing and less on polishing the ****.

It's the racing, isn't it?

[Doc Austin]

You've just described what is known as Club Racing.

And that club doesn't really care what you think. They're too busy racing to worry about you.

[Richard Kimble]

And that club doesn't really care what you think. They're too busy racing to worry about you.

Haven't you heard, the racing is passe......it's all about the look of the chassis.[and how outrageously you can inflate the crowds in the highschool bleachers]

[Krosnoff25]

Its threads like these that I love reading this forum. Some people seemingly have incorporated their particular series and see it as part of their own self image. They then integrate it into part of their own identity. Anything that pushes an issue with "their" series is seen as an attack on themselves and they must defend it vehemntly. That goes for all CC, IRL, sports car fans. Hilarious. Enjoy the racing, forget about the politics and BS. Im a CC fan, but I enjoy the IRL, ALMS, F1, and Grand Am. But Im a racing first and foremost. I wish most of you were the same.

"Its not war, its just people going as fast as possible"

[Spike]

And that club doesn't really care what you think. They're too busy racing to worry about you.

From reading the thread starter and subsequent posts the subject is something other than me. Instead of making it personal and attacking me, how about staying on topic? Or is that all you've got?

[Doc Austin]

From reading the thread starter and subsequent posts the subject is something other than me. Instead of making it personal and attacking me, how about staying on topic? Or is that all you've got?

The "you" was generic, as in "you fans." Sorry I wasn't more specific, but I figured you (specific) understood what I was saying. Not a personal attack at all.

All the Grand American needs is healthy teams, which they have. They don't really care if you "fans" like it or not. They are too busy racing to worry about you "fans" (generic) fans.

Nice try though.

[aportinga]

Which is fine because the teams and the series is healthy. Grand American doesn't need whiney "fans" trying to tear everything down just because they feel like they are disinfranchised "customers."

All Grand American needs is healthy teams, and they've got them.....plenty of them.

Deal with it. Get used to Grand American being around and get used to them not caring what people who aren't involved think.

So fans in the stands is no logical bearing of the success of a series?

[Spike]

So you (not generic) were speaking on behalf of Grand Am.

Got it.

And if in the future you (again, not generic) were to post something like:

"Grand Am thinks you are stupid."

I'll know not to take it personally since it was really Grand Am speaking in the generic sense.

[Canth]

So fans in the stands is no logical bearing of the success of a series?

Fans in the stands can certainly be one barometer of how popular the series is. However, if the economics of the series are set up so that they can operate without thousands and thousands of fans in the stands, then yes they can be more successful with less fans than a series that has to have those thousands of people in the stands.

[Doc Austin]

So fans in the stands is no logical bearing of the success of a series?

Fans in the stands are nice, but it's not everything. Without the teams the fans mean nothing. These ow series get colossal crowds compared to Grand American, but the sportscar series is getting stronger and stronger, while ow becomes sicker and sicker.

Cars on the track is my measure. If the teams are making money and keeping people employed, that's success.

I don't really care who has the biggest fan club or what the popular kids are watchig this week.

And remember, you will always have people who want to race whether fans are there or not. Try having a race with no teams some time and see how long your loyal "fans" hang around.

[Doc Austin]

So you (not generic) were speaking on behalf of Grand Am.

I never said that, but thanks for misrepresenting my position.

[lkchris]

So fans in the stands is no logical bearing of the success of a series?

Not nearly as much as TV ratings, except to local popcorn sellers.

[Spike]

I never said that, but thanks for misrepresenting my position.

I see a post above from you (not generic) that says the following:

And that club [Grand Am] doesn't really care what you think. They're too busy racing to worry about you.

Was that sentiment from you (Doc Austin) or from Grand Am?

I'm a bit confused. First you say it's Grand Am's position. Now you are saying it's your position.

If it's from Grand Am then I'd say that's a pretty arrogant (if not boderline idiotic) thing for a series to feel about racing fans.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Fans in the stands are nice, but it's not everything. Without the teams the fans mean nothing.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. I doubt very much that ISC would mirror your sentiments on the subject.

[damilt]

PT - please explain your comment about "negative attendence". I have know idea what it is, but I'm sure I might have seen it on NBC sunday afternoonaound 5:00 pm EST.

[mesquite]

I'll agree with Doc on one thing ... if the economics are so that the series can prosper without high attendances ... more power to you. I'm just not sure that OW cars can get so ... (ahem) ... un-technological enough to get the costs down. They're freekin' rocket ships.

[step33T]

I agree to an extent with Roger.

ALL series should be required to announce actual tickets sold, tickets disributed, and no shows. You get honest numbers, and then let the chips fall where they may.

Full disclosure would be SO NICE!!!

[kikigirl]

OMG, now we're discussing the meaning of "YOU"!?
Is it me, or are people REALLY getting thin skinned and have to turn EVERY darn post into a "MY series" vs. "YOUR series" urinating match?
Now it's what...Grand Am vs...what now.... ALMS?
So why is Grand AM so evil to some? Does this mean YOU are not a "CC fan" or should never watch CC because YOU sometimes watch Grand AM races?

You know, Krosnoff25's post makes a lot of sense....IMHO, of course.
And yes, perhaps everyone should announce attendance figures. It certainly might take the sting out of some of the, um, YOU-know-what matches around here.
Sorry, but when we start picking apart spelling, grammar, and semantics around here all the darn time it, IMHO, is getting TOOOOOOOOO annoyingly pedantic! I mean, William Safire doesn't even get THIS picky (and before you say anything, I read his "On Language Column" every Sunday in the Times...it's actually, very amusing )
IMHO, of course.
ps...if YOU don't have fans in the stands, then how do you pay for a lot of YOUR expenses? And why bother to show up and race if there is no one to support YOU? IMO, fans DO count.....the supportive and loyal kind, BTW

[SportscarBruce]

yeah, Roger Edmondson, my hero

Fits right into the ''American OW is a fraud'' thread. How timely.

I tell you, the BS being spouted is starting to effect my enjoyment as a fan, and this is compounded by the sycophant fans that parrot the company line.
If they just raced, ignored the attendance BS, ignored the ''were better than'' BS, ignored the ''major announcement'' BS, the sport would be fundamentally better off, with more effort on the racing and less on polishing the ****.

It's the racing, isn't it?

Well put, it's why I took a vacation away from the boards from Sebring on and just focused on the racing. Know what? I enjoyed every race without thoughts of attendence figures, skewed media agendas, and other business downers clouding the action. I'll suggest everyone take a self-imposed time out away from the bickering and rediscover racing....

[kikigirl]

True
I had fun today exchanging silly PMs with one of my buds on this board....it was silly but all in good fun
(BTW, despite some of the pooh-pooing, bickering, etc.... I've made some pals on this board )

[Doc Austin]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.

Read your own stuff sometime.

There is racing all over the country that doesn't have any fans in the stands. Try getting the fans to show up without teams and cars on the track.

No teams = no racing

No racing = no fans

I'll agree with Doc on one thing ... if the economics are so that the series can prosper without high attendances ... more power to you.

Thank you.

I'm just not sure that OW cars can get so ... (ahem) ... un-technological enough to get the costs down. They're freekin' rocket ships.

There's enough low cost technology to blow the Indycars and champcars into the weeds if the PTB would take the restrictions off. Just bring back the old Buick and let them crank the boost off the scale. I doubt anything could touch it.

That's just one example of how you could go fast without spending a lot of money. There are plenty more.

[flatlander_48]

There's enough low cost technology to blow the Indycars and champcars into the weeds if the PTB would take the restrictions off. Just bring back the old Buick and let them crank the boost off the scale. I doubt anything could touch it.

Yes, for about 15 minutes...

[ptistheboss]

PT - please explain your comment about "negative attendence". I have know idea what it is, but I'm sure I might have seen it on NBC sunday afternoonaound 5:00 pm EST.

Hmm, I saw some packed stands besides the front straight which was apparently very hard to get to.

But back on topic, negative attendance means that stand alone GA races have barely anybody going to them. I've only seen GA with CC or the IRL and the racing was spectacular no doubt, but the race at Laguna Seca had more people working for teams that paying to see said teams.

[aportinga]

Not nearly as much as TV ratings, except to local popcorn sellers.

Obviously...

But it's hard to sell an investment to a potential sponsor when there is nothing but bare aluminum surrounding the track.

Gotta be a limit there without the fans for sure.

[SportscarBruce]

There's enough low cost technology to blow the Indycars and champcars into the weeds if the PTB would take the restrictions off. Just bring back the old Buick and let them crank the boost off the scale. I doubt anything could touch it.

As it is Audi's R10 applies 800 ft/lbs of torque to the racing surface, with unregulated boost and no inlet restrictors the silver cars would blow away anything racing on a closed circuit today, F1 included. Would be dangerous though...

BTW Doc I was fooling around with GTVE in order to give SCGT cars some horsepower and that gives me an idea. Are there any March/Buick or Lola/Buick cars out there in simland?